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hey guys,well first it was my daughter,now my 4 year old nice has gotten her first 5 gallon bow front tank(its only small but she is over the moon)and has decided she wants some fish!it seems fate was on her side,when her mother found the tank driving past a garage sale for $10its one of those tanks that comes complete from the shop,it has the light and filter in the hood,witch fits snugg over the tank.so i washed it all out for her today,got some new media in it,i will be taking it up to her place to get it up and running 2morro,everything works,as i tested it all today!so basicly im after some ideas on what she can keep in it,i will be doing most of the keeping for her!so being as its only a 5 gal and so limited as to what can be kept in it,i was thinking some multis(neolamprologus multifasciatus)ether 2 or 4,or maybe some punks,ive showed her the pics and she is all for the shellie idea.being such a small body of water i was trying to get some thing hardy,and something that will spawn fairly easy,and something fun to watch,and the multis sprang to mind,so when i told her about the shells,and what the fish use them for,her reply was simple I WANT THEM FISHIES UNCLE,god love her!anyway,so yeah what do you guys think,also i was a bit concerned with the filtration(wasnt real good)so ill probly just slip in a small internal filter,just so it can help with the filtration...

Hate to be the one to bring bad news but 5g is not a whole lot of space. Be a good uncloe and flip $10 on a 10g and use the internal filter you were thinking about lol.

5g could work with 1m/2f but wont hold to many more adults. The fry would create little to no bioload so thats not a concern. after the 3rd batch of fry though and they wil begin to matter. Weekly water changes and a close eye and it can be done.

Is this 5 US or 5 Imperial gallons? Only that will make a difference here.

Plus, even if it's the latter (which means more water volume), pollutant management in that tank is going to be a fun exercise to put it mildly. Of course, your niece has the advantage of having you on hand to assist with this project, and you have the skills to pass on, but even so, it's going to be an interesting exercise for all concerned.

With the tank size in mind, I'd try and track down the smallest Shellie species you can for this setup, so as to minimise territorial infighting and pollutant problems. So, turning to the ever reliable Fishbase, here's a list of species (SL=standard length, TL=total length, figures for males, females are considerably smaller):

Neolamprologus boulangeri : 6.25 cm SL
Neolamprologus brevis : 5.5 cm TL
Neolamprologus calliurus : 8.1 cm TL
Neolamprologus hecqui : 8.0 cm TL
Neolamprologus kungweensis : 8.0 cm TL
Neolamprologus meleagris : 6.25 cm SL
Neolamprologus multifasciatus : 4.0 cm TL
Neolamprologus ocellatus : 5.0 cm SL
Neolamprologus ornatipinnis : 5.0 cm SL
Neolamprologus signatus : 5.5 cm TL
Neolamprologus stappersi : 5.1 cm TL

Out of this lot, multifasciatus would appear to be the best choice. Apart from being the smallest of the lot, and therefore providing fewer pollution headaches, they're also likely to be hardier than some of the others because they've been in the hobby for some time, and captive bred stock is pretty widely available. If you find stappersi, these are drop dead gorgeous, but I'd advise against them as a "first Shellie" because they're probably more demanding than the multies.

Plus, while one should be cautious with respect to Wikipedia articles, the article on shell dwellers cites members of the N. ocellatus group as being the most aggressive, so despite the small size of some of these fishes, they're probably ill suited to anything less than a 15 imperial gallon setup.

One tip that seems to be common to ALL sites discussing shell dwellers is this - make sure that the sand is deep enough to allow the fishes to bury their shells if they so wish. Several of the shell dwellers will do this. A pity that I'm having to warn you off N. ocellatus because of aggression issues, because not only it the colour of the gold morph stunning to behold, but it's one of the most industrious diggers, rivalling certain Central and South American Cichlids 20 times its size! If you can obtain a definite male and female pair (preferably with shell), then you might get away with N. ocellatus, but only might. In any case, once any babies produced are old enough to be evicted from the nest, they're likely to face a VERY rough time from the parents when the parents are ready to start a new brood, so again, I'd track down something less likely to be dysfunctional in this respect, which probably means the multies again. Oh, and apparently, N. stappersi is part of the Ocellatus group, which means it shares both aggression and digging behaviour with N. ocellatus. A pity, because male stappersi in particular are real "make your eyes pop out on stalks" fishes in the beauty stakes!

Hope this little lot helps.

EDIT: Whoops, almost forgot! There's a nice article from The Cichlid Room on shellies here.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Bearing in mind what Sin In Style has just said above about upgrading to a bigger tank to give the fishes space, which will be appreciated even by the multies, let alone anything else (and broadens your options considerably), then you could use the 5g bow front to cultivate small shrimps, so your niece has more than one 'wet pet' to watch.

I'd wait till she's a bit older before suggesting using the 5g to raise shrimps to feed the shellies though.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Funny i was thinking the same thing. 5g would be gret for brine shrimp harvesting or some other food source like micro worms.

Multies will move your sand also. Their goal in life is to reach the bottom of your tank so the shells rest in a pit of sand. They will pick up a mouthfull and bring it to the side and drop it off. Reminds me of a front loader lol. Sometimes they will line their rearend up to a edge and go full tilt while remaining in position. This will send tons of sand away. Think there is a video of this on another site. Found it but i was wrong sorry thats Occies.

Anyway multies arnt colorless they do have some nice barring and blue eyes that a true blonde couldnt compete with. Their social structure is really the major attraction though. Like watching a mini soap opera. Never know what they are gona do while watching. I have a 30g breeder tank ( less hight more bottom area ) with 100+ shells and i spend way more time watching these little 2 inch fish then i do my 75g mbuna tank. ALl those colors are nice for min but the sopa opera gets me everytime.

thanx sin,cal!mmmm,thats what i kept on thinking,5 gal isnt a big tank is it.cal,its 5 gal us!IF i could obtain a pair of multis with a shell,id probly give it a go in the 5 galbut as im thinking ill probly have to get say 5 to obtain a pair,5 of these little diggers in a 5 gal,is just trouble waiting to happen!also im woried about the shape of this tank,most of the room is in length and height,(43cm long,31cm high,only 12cm wide,but it gets wider toward the middle as its a bowfront),i might just put this tank aside,and have a chat to her mum and see if we can go up to a 10-15gal for her,that way her room is not overtaken by fish tanks,it will be easy to find a place for it,and a 15 gal with a good small internal filter,sand and a stack of shells,hopefully then we can get her some multisso what do you think of this plan

Give a poor cup bouned Betta a good home with some plants.

you know what a beta didnt even cross my mind,ill have to show her some pics of some bettas when i see her 2morro

Hmm. While you're thinking in terms of Labyrinth Fishes as a diversion from the shellies (whilst keeping in mind the possibility of a decent sized shellie tank - 24" × 12" × 12" should be fine for multies, and might even let you get away with a pair of Occies if you're fond of the gold ones) here's a thought to consider if you can find these fishes.

Trichopsis pumilus. A Labyrinth Fish that's not much bigger than a Neon Tetra, so your niece could have 4 of them in the 5 gal. Just make sure the 5 gal is heavily planted because these fish like their plant cover. Best part is, she can have fun listening for when these fishes start making croaking noises, which the males do both during territorial disputes and courting the females. I think your niece will be quite enchanted when she hears them doing this!

Oh, and if you can arrange that 24" × 12" × 12" tank, then quite a few interesting options become available Cichlid wise. Although they're pretty demanding water condition wise, Apistogramma panduro have the nice distinction of having males and females that are totally different colours, so you can obtain a pair without any trouble whatsoever. Whether they'd be suitable for an aquarium being looked after by a 4 year old is of course moot, because I'm toying with the possibility of acquiring a pair of these for the Panda Fun Palace but holding back while I check whether or not they're not too high maintenance a species.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Im thinking a betta, a ADF and a snail would be pretty interesting to a four year old and work very well in a 5 gallon.

Most large bettas will just eat an african dwarf frog. I regularly used these and and small guppies to condition my bettas.

well now im at a crossroads,wether to go with the multis,the betta,or upgrade to a 15gal,to open up the options a bit more,she is coming over this arvo,so ill have a chat to her,and show her some pics,and see what she likes,then ill post and let yous know witch way we went.those fellas you metioned cal,they sound real cool,making craking noises.also the mulits above,that i was first planning to put into the 5gal,i was doing some more reading last night,and i red a few different times,that despite there small size(toppin out at a whopping 4cm..lol),when they have staked out there home and decide to bless it with some kids,they will have no problem,latching onto the back of the cleaners hand and giving a good ol shake,also lauching into would be attacks on the glass as people look into the tank.all heart for a 4cm fish fish,willing to take on a 6 foot human.

There is a video that shows a croc swimming over a shellbed of multies with an entire colony coming up and attacking hopeing to scare the croc off. Obviously a 2inch fish is not gona cause any damage to a croc but evidently they dont care lol. Believe the video is called jewel of the rift not sure.

WOWthe more i hear about these fellas the more i like em.

The Jewels Of The Rift series is on YouTube - here. The link takes you to part 1. Then you can find parts 2 onwards from there after watching part 1.

The video concentrates upon Tanganyikan Cichlids, and it features some amazing footage, including those Multis.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

that was awesome,see that fish attack the turtle,you have to hand it to them for no fear,i havent watched the second video yet,im just about to go out,but now after reading so much and watching that,i thinks me is going to get some multis of my own,ive had some of the lrger shellies a while back when i had african tanks,but i never actully kept(neolamprologus multifasciatus)due to there small size in fear of being eaten/picked on,by my larger cichlids!but i doubt that will happen,so it seems 2 good things came from a 5 gal tank,me and my nice getting some multis!now for the bad news,ive spoken to her mum,and as the tank will be going in my nices room,ontop of her dressing table,her mum said in a kind way,sorry untill we move later next year,its the 5 gal or nothing!aparently money a room are a big issue!so it looks as thow ill have to make do for her with the 5 gal.so this is my plan then!ill TRY to obtain/order in a pair of multis with a shell,from my lfs,ive already dug her out 1 of my smaller internal filters from my slew of spare fishkeeping bits and peaces in the shed,so ill clean that little filter out,steal some media from the external fluval on my 89gal,to put in her filter in the lid,also in the internal filter too.ill also check my water parametrs and use my water from the 89 gallon too,then ill just raise the ph a bit,add some cycle/stress zyhme,and leave it cycling while i track down the multis.so does this sound like a plan to you guys.just 2 multis with a few shells,the 2 filters,and me doing the wcs,and genral upkeep of the tank.althought 1 thing that does come to mind,is water changes on such a tiny tank,i would think the smaller the better,like just a liter of water for a water change as not to change any parameters to much.yes/no...

Hmm, tight squeeze. But, you might be able to pull it off if you're able to be relatively hands-on with the setup, after all you have the skills here. The trick is going to be teaching your niece to acquire the same skills.

If you run with the multis and they start raising a family, you're going to have fun transferring the babies to a nursery at your home. But, you'll have a nice crop of fish to sell at the end of it that could possibly let you finance a tank upgrade in the future.

Oh by the way Hokese, I tracked down all 7 parts of that Nat Geo broadcast on YouTube and put them in a separate topic. If you have Firefox as your browser, get the Video DownloadHelper addon, and you can download the lot to your computer and watch at leisure (the clips are 15-20 MB each).

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

yeah i can keep a close eye on it,she only lives like 3-4 mins away,and my girlfriend and i are always up up there for dinner or a chat.so ill be able to check it while im there.as for the babies,ill cross that bridge when i get to itthanx for them clips cal ill go and check those out.

transfering the media from a used filter is a great idea. I would have to recommend leaving it at that though. Dont use water from an established tank from your place. Use it from here tap and leave it over night for the temp to settle. AFTER you get the fish bring over the media and place it in the filtration roughly the same time as the fish. This will instantly cycle the tank and should be no issues.

If you place the media in more then a hour before the fish it will more then likely die off from lack of food. Also using her tap water will get the new fish use to her water instead of yours just incase there is a difference. And i would mess with the PH unless its absolutly needed. What is her PH levels?

One other thing your gona want to just fill the bottom of the tank with shells. Multies are selective with a home so providing multiple choices allowes them to not only change their mind but know there is room for babies to move out to. Escargot shells are perfect and fairly cheap if not free. Can often get them from supermarkets or online.
http://www.chefswarehouse.com/Catalog/DisplayDetail.aspx?prd_id=GF101
To get you started this link is the cheapest palce ive found.

By the way thats for 3dz which will prolly be to many but not by much lol. You really cant give them to many but being a 5g they will displace a fair bit of water so i would suggest using no more then 1dz (12 shells)