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sweet thanx sin,that sounds like a plan to me.im not sure what the ph is at her place,tho i wll find out.but as my tanks are kept at 7.0 neutral and i was planning on using my water,thats why i wanted to bring to ph up to say 8.0-8.2,only because the multis are a african cichlid!also thanx for that link mate pretty cheep for shells too,ill probly grabb the 3dozen,cause i want some multis to now

If memory serves, Lake Tanganyika is the more alkaline of the two lakes, so Tanganyikan Cichlids generally require a slightly higher pH than Malawian Cichlids. Mbuna from Lake Malawi will do fine at 7.6-8.0, whereas Tanganyikans tend to prefer it at 8.0-8.6, with the odd species even being happy at 9.0. It will probably be a VERY good idea to buffer a shell dweller aquarium with calcareous sand as the substrate, not lest because the fishes will like to dig in it.

Basically, where I live, my water is much more suitable for Amazonian fishes, so if I kept shellies, every water change I performed would have to be accompanied by the direct addition of extra minerals to the water to make it hard enough for them! Whilst Malawi Cichlids will he reasonably happy with water that's at around 15-30 dH, though preferring the upper part of this range, Tanganyikans like it even harder - it's not unheard of for them to be happy in water that's a whopping 60 dH!

Mind you, that's nothing compared to Alcolapia alcalicus, the weird Cichlid from Lake Natron, which is a soda lake directly fed by a volcanic hot spring. That fish lives in water whose parameters will make your eyes pop out on stalks - its home is basically a solution of Sodium Carbonate, has a pH that sometimes reaches the dizzy heights of 10.5 (this is about the same pH as a laboratory bench solution of pure ammonia!) and the hardness is - get this - a truly mind-bending 7,000 dH. In other words, that fish is swimming in liquid rock. So if you ever fancy keeping something REALLY weird, that's the fish for you.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

oh yeah the grahams cichlid,i dont mind them!they are a early morning feeder,there diet is mainly blue/green algae,they will gulp insects from the water suface too,they will also eat copepods aswell,pretty extreme water parameters thow.anyway,i was going to go for sand as the substrate,so they can gig away to there hearst conent.also i was going to buy a good buffer aswell for the wcs,ive had great succsess using buffers on all my cichlid tanks

A good choice for a shellie tank would be coral sand. Or for that matter crushed mollusc shells or crushed tufa rock. Basically, anything with a LOT of Calcium Carbonate in it!

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

off topic for a second,1 thing with the grahams cichlid that did cross my mind,how would you get 7,000 dh,in a fishtank!what would you use to reach these way out parameters...wow

Apparently for Alcolapia alcalicus, you dissolve pure Sodium Carbonate in its water. Though I think any of us here would find it difficult to locate a pH test kit that reaches to 10.5!

Apparently the home of this fish is also the chosen breeding site of about 2 million pairs of Lesser Flamingoes. Who choose the lake because the water is too caustic for most land based predators to paddle in to reach the nests and steal their eggs. It doesn't stop aerial predators from inflicting attrition upon their numbers, of course, but even these have to operate with some care if they don't want to end up in the drink.

The fact that a fish has adapted to live in water this extreme once again demonstrates that no matter how weird or seemingly uninhabitable a place is, something will find a way of making a living there.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

that just blows my mind,those water parameters,that are just that far out!but i guess they have adapted and its homehow would you measure such a high ph?id like to keep something like this,it would be a good challenge,its starting to get hard to find a cichlid that i havent kept!most of the shops around here dont get HEAPS of different cichlids,i think they tend to go on whats popular at the time,i vistied a slew of shops around here,even been driving to shops that are way away from my area,to find something new,with ZERO luck.i tryed for ages i coundnt even get some (paratilapia polleni)small spot madagascar cichlid!anyway getting back on topic,we are off to the fish shop today for some supplies for the 5gal,so ill have a look for some multis too.

not sure how you buffer but try to go with something that doesnt cause massive swings every water change. PH up/down is useless in my opinion. crushed shells would be a good bet. In all honestly though anything over 7.4 would prolly be fine. My tap is 7.6 out of the tap and my tanks are fine. I love my tap its like the perfect middle ground for so many fish. High enough for malawis and tangs but still low enough to acclimate most normal fish. short of Cals amazons like apistos.

I tend to work with what i got and let the fish get use to it. hasnt caused any issues but i keep it within reason. just makes water changes easier for me and the fish.

ill see whats there when i get to the shop,but as i said buffers have worked well for me!still waiting for my nieces mum to bring her down so we can get to the fish store...

well this has turned out to be a bit of a mission,ive been to 2 local fish shops that i use,1 said it wasnt worth his while,the other shop can get some,but they will be around $65 each,and they arent the exact multis i was after,i still have 2 shops left to try,but i think this is going to get expensive,i mite start checking some online places.ill go and check the other 2 shops i use,1 of them i think i will have a good chace of getting the exact multis("neolamprologus multifasciatus"im after!well the tank is ready to be filled with water,it has the bottom covered in sand about 2 inches thick,and i was able to get a bunch of asorted shells from my lfs,so far ive got 12 of them placed all over the bottom of the tank,i chucked the pirate ship,and put in a small fake plant for some colour and extra cover.so now i just have to wait untill after x-mas untill the shop opens back up to see if i can obtain these little fellas.god knows what im going to do if i cant get them,my nice has been going on and on about them,telling just about everybody about these fish shes getting called "multis" that live and lay there eggs in shells!

what do you mean exact multis? what other multies are they offering? only other that comes close and i can think of is the catfish.

i shoulda worded it better,she meant there was others from the (neolamprologus family),but as i said i want multis!
the other 4 from the neolamprologus family were
neolamprologus-calliurus
-brevis
-hecqui
-ocellatus.these were what was avialable.just my luck.

funny, those are usually tougher to find then multies.

mmm,well im heading back there 2morro,to see how she went,if no luck there,ill try my normall guy i use,then if he cant get them,ill try to find them online somewhere.jeez i cant wait to get them,alot of the reviews and peolpe rave about keeping them..

Not sure where you are located but i would check local fish forums to see if anyone is giving them away. these things CAN be prolific and once there is a large colony they increase their numbers 2 fold on a monthly bases.

www.shelldwellers.com often has some kicking around but they ar enever local for me lol.

oh ok ill have a look in there and see if anyone has any around my area..