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people say african chiclids pretty much need crushed coral to live good with live plants and then need places to hide and a decently high ph for them to live well i have a 55 with 8 chiclids in it and its funny cause i dont have crushed coral i dont have live plants and i dont have places for them to hide also my ph drops alll the time though i do take care of it and i have lost only 2 fish in a year and a half and it is my first time with a big tank and so far im doing great so just dont listen to people when they try to tell u wat your fish need casue THEY ARE WRONG

they dont necessarily need crushed coral and live plants might be eventually destroyed. they do need places to hide or they will get stressed. also losing 2 fish in a year in a half is not something to be proud of. especialy since cichlid are so hardy. a lot of cichlids live for 5+ years. finally that is very dangerous to have your ph drop all the time

chizunk -

For starters, there's only one "H" in cichlid. If you're going to talk about your fish, AT LEAST spell their name correctly. Secondly, it's almost impossible to read a huge block of text without any sort of punctuation.

Furthermore, crushed coral is to help raise the pH to a level which is similar to the particular lake which the cichlids come from - Malawi, Tanganyika, or Victoria. Some people use it, other people use other substrates. Some people use pH-raising rocks like limestone. I have a combination of Texas Holey Rock and Travertine, both are a calcite-based rock, and both keep the pH in my tank at a steady 8.0.

Yes, there are people out there keeping rift lake fish at lower pH's (you being one of them). You are gauging your success on the fact that only 2 have died. In my realm, something has gone wrong, not right, if a fish has died before its time. Most Rift Lake cichlids are very hardy - enough to tolerate a pH range which is lower than their desired level, and enough to tolerate a certain degree of abuse. But does that mean you should? There's a big difference in life between tolerating and thriving. The goal of many fishkeepers is to create a suitable habitat for their fish, which includes replicating things from their environment like an appropriate pH and having caves for rock-dwelling fish. In other words, create a suitable place where your fish can thrive. When fish die prematurely, they are not thriving.

Live plants a requirement? I'm not sure where you heard that one, but many African cichlid keepers choose not to have live plants. This is usually because there aren't too many species which won't be eaten, ripped apart, or dug up.

My recommendation is to read up on these fish and their requirements. These things were not just cooked up by people who thought it'd be funny to dupe the entire fish-keeping world. Tank setup recommendations, pH requirements, etc., come from people who've had years upon years of experience keeping them.

Some required reading I recommend you peruse before telling us all we are wrong:
African Cichlids: http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/introduction_list.php
Feeding: http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/feeding_list.php
Species Profiles: http://cichlid-forum.com/articles/species_profiles.php

[span class="edited"][Edited by AndyCLS 2004-09-03 12:52][/span]

Ok, here is the problem. You are saying you are having sucess when you have only had two fish die.

Here is the truth. African Cichlids from the three rift lakes NEED high pH to survive. You've only had two die in a year and a half when they can EASILY live 5 years.

Rift Lake Cichlids are VERY hardy, thus having two die means you may be doing something wrong (sorry, but you are). Read up on your fish from the links AndyCLS gave you.

Hmm, fish need places to play around and sleep/rest and hide. It's not a matter of if people are wrong or not.

While I do not have plants in my current mbuna set up as I feel they do not need them, they do have a somewhat large rockscape to spend their time amoungst, keeps them interested and not banging their heads into the side of the take out of bordom, or even worse aggression toward eachother.

While I don't need crushed coral, or any additives, it is only because I am lucky to have a pH at my home which is virtually 8.0 stable.

However when I move next week, I don't know what the water will be like yet, if need to take extra measures to assure the PROPER well being of my cichlids, you can be sure I will do it.

[span class="edited"][Edited by AngelZoo 2004-09-08 15:33][/span]

chizunk, are you a scientist who has done years of research and wrote books on the proper care of african cichlids? because i would like to read it. any more great tips are greatly appreciated.

[span class="edited"][Edited by just beginning 2004-09-08 19:59][/span]

the reason my fish died is because they were crippled fish and they lived long considering they were a quarterof the size of the other ones they finaaly got eaten after a while so there was nothing i could do

[span class="edited"][Edited by just beginning 2004-09-08 19:59][/span]

chizunk, these are living creatures. Just because they CAN survive in something doesn't mean we should make them live in a setting that stresses them and makes them unhappy.

I get the feeling you are not putting a lot of thought or research into your replies.

Chizunk, not to be mean, but that is just plain not good fishkeeping and like others have said it's nothing to brag about. I have 15 fish in my 55g that I have raised from 1" fry and they're now at 3-4" each. If ANY of them died I wouldn't be happy. Like others have said also, what you can do and what you should do are two very different things.

African cichlids need alkaline hard water. Malawi not as much as others. Lake Malawi has a PH under 8 and a hardness in the low teens. I keep my Saulosi and Perlmutts at 7.8 PH and 14 GH and they're thriving. You fish might be alive, but I doubt they're as large as they should be and as full colored as they should be. My female Saulosi make almost every other fish I've ever seen look dull and that includes saltwater fish. That is because I do what should be done, not what could be done. They're my pets and I want to do the best I can for them. Hiding spots are a definate must for most species at least. Some are open water, but any mbuna needs rock and I'd highly recommend rock for peacocks too. Try not to act so smug as you are still definately an amateur (as am I).

"the reason my fish died is because they were crippled fish"
[font color="#008000"]LOL[/font]


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[span class="edited"][Edited by PJ 2004-09-10 03:47][/span]

malawi's hardness is around 110ppm for gh and even less for kh (70-80ppm.)

Who are the people who are confused? and is it the fish that confuse them or you? Fish keeping is not about torturing fish to see how long they can live. Dont you get any enjoyment out of your fish? its no harder to do it right you know. If you are doing regular your water Ph shouldn't be dropping to much anyway. But I am Guessing you couldnt be bothered doing that either.
I know theres is alot of contradicting information out there, but with forums so easy to access its not hard to figure out whats usefull and whats crap.

Josh