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Ok, yeah ,I know, hybrid deformed fish, blah, blah, not keen on em myself etc. As you may already know I got them for a study into hybrid behaviour a while back though I would not normally own such a fish, I have kept the ones from the study because there was one thing I wanted to know about- the fertility. It is often said that they can't breed, and that possibly there is low fertility, or maybe just the males that have a problem. Possibly even , the infertility may be caused by standards of care and lacking diet, and that I can certainly rectify.

Well, I guess im about to find out, because this morning - this happened.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a245/longhairedgit/IMG_5345.jpg

Well female infertility can be scratched off the list of issues for definite. Yesterday despite no other outward signs of pregnancy she had a huge ovipositor on her, probably over 5mm long. I guess now all we need to know is if they actually hatch.

Both parents are guarding the nest, and I may remove 50% of the fry if they hatch, to raise seperately, as despite peaches and percy there having quite a handle on things and a size advantage in that particular tank, there are a lot of scavengers in there. I'll maintain a low level of light at night, so that they can see and repel night raiders. The male who is the most defensive actually cant really bite, but he pushes other fish away,and the female is completely absorbed in staring at every single egg and fanning them with water,she wont even swap for a shift like the acaras, do , but then shes fat enough to go a week without food. So theres no need to really move the pair ,and since the eggs have been laid on a 30 kilo piece of mopani that would require taking the tank apart to shift, im not gonna move them.

Its not a species id wish to breed, but actually my two specimens arent that deformed, they seemed to get fitter and "straighten" out a bit, the longer I had them, plus the female has a mouth that actually works normally, so perhaps its the level of deformity thats the problem, not the actual hybridisation.

If im right and they hatch it will go to show theres a lot of parrot cichlid keepers out there whos keeping standards must absolutely suck.

we'll see.

I'm kind of torn between having a species I dont ethically approve of, and secretly quite proud they are healthy and willing to reproduce.But some questions do need answering, and I guess i'm about to find out.


In fact its turning out to be one of those weeks, the bolivian rams are nesting, the firemouths have been getting jiggy, the blue acaras just had their first 100% hatch rate, the red rainbows have spawned yet again,and the bettas are nesting.

Its breeding armageddon!

Git,

I am the same way Im not into hybridizations and mutations and what not. But you should be proud that you have been able ot get these specimens to feel comfotable enough in themselves to want to spawn.

I didnt know there was that much confusion as to the spawning and what not of these guys. We always used to see a pair at the LFS gaurding a clutch. Seemed normal.

Also I have no idea what parrots are hybridized from?

Congrats! You should be proud./:'

RNJ,
blood parrots are a deformed midas or red devil i think

Nah, both those species would enhance the size and aggression of a parrot so much it couldnt be those. More likely is a three way cross between Archocentrus Spilurum, Australoheros facetum, and a still as yet unidentified but closely sized relative. In the 50's onwards a selectively bred Australoheros facetum , completely orange, and marking free was popular and doubtless the foundation stone for the parrot cichlid,and even today the odd female parrot is the spit of that strain, but the rest of the gene structure is still very much open to debate, even among experts and genetecists. In short, it isnt really known.

The whole red devil /midas idea came from mendelian genetics, unfortunately this is not a good way to work out progenitor species, its a common and oft quoted mistake. The midas/devil quote is actually deliberate misinformation from the people who actually breed parrots in an effort to throw people of the scent so that they can be the ones to enjoy the exclusive breeding rights, and since the parrots need to be recrossed with a progenitor species frequently to overcome male infertility, protecting the identity of the species is a multi million dollar concern. Its probably protected by patent.

I saw some privately bred blue acara/parrot crosses only last year, and even that cross radically changed the look of the fish in terms of colouration, and straightened the spine out a little, although the parrot mouth was still very much in evidence.. Having seen how the acara bloodline solved the male fertility problems and produced viable offspring though, I wouldnt be surprised if the third hybrid component is an acara of some sort.

The midas/red devil cross would give you something along the lines of a flowerhorn.

BTW , rather unsurprisnigly , the eggs werent fertile.No development, so I trashed them.

Blood Parrots are a cross between a Red Devil and a Gold Severum FYI.

Nope, its a myth.

I"d believe the midas/severum cross before the facetum/spilurus/etc. cross. imo, there is definitely midas in there which is where the natural (for lack of a better word) orange body color comes from. not to mention blood parrots generally are born greyish with vertical bars and then turn orange...again a trait of midas/red devil.

also, the confusion about their breeding is most likely simply due to false information spread around the net. females generally have a high fertility rate and will readily breed with male midas/red devil and males of other species in some situations. male blood parrots are almost always (of course there are exceptions) sterile.

Actually, I posted a photo in another thread somewhere here from my 1970s TFH back numbers featuring a spilurus/facetus cross in the days when both species were in Cichlasoma prior to the Greenwood/Kullander taxonomic upheaval. The photos of that fish definitely contain strong hints about the nature of the extant hybrid "Parrot Cichlids" (as opposed to the REAL Parrot Cichlid, Hoplarchus psittacus, which is a bona fide species from South America and a very attractive one too).

Can't find the thread in which I posted that photo just yet, but I DID post it. I'll repost it here: original photo was on page 70 among the "Mail Call" reader's letters (and answers) in the October 1977 issue of TFH.


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Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002