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I have had 2 angel fish for approx a year now. I always thought they were 2 males because they both appeared to have the same little breeding tube under the belly. They never got along well, always picking at eachother but not to the point where they got seriously injured. I gave up on trying to get a breeding pair whenever I would introduce new angels to the tank, they would die. So I settled for the 2 males and have just watched them pick at eachother.
Now all of a sudden there are eggs on my glass magnet. They are both running their little tubes over the eggs,and taking a munch at them if they fall off. I cant tell if they are both laying eggs or if one of them is fertilizing. Again, anatomys still look the same, and they are still picking at eachother all the while.

(I have had angels that paired and spawned before and they were lovebirds, not enemies!!)

So I am stumped. Do I have 2 females that are both laying eggs? Or will a female even lay eggs if there is not a male to fertilize? I hope I have a pair but they sure aren't a happy healthy couple. May need to seek some angelfish couples counceling.

Would love some input so I do not get excited over expecting fry if its not the case.
And If it is... yeah!!

Angelfish are highly evolved and complex by fish standards, so it's not surprising you're experiencing some interesting behaviours!

First, the gender issue. Sometimes, if two female Angelfishes are together in an aquarium minus a male, they will lay together. Not so much 'lesbianism' on their part as the need to eject the eggs from their body cavities before the eggs die. After all, the last thing any creature wants is something dead and decomposing within its body cavity - ask anyone who has needed emergency surgery to deal with a burst appendix that has triggered a peritonitis infection ...

However, Angelfishes have precious few clues as to the gender of the particular fish (unless you're willing to dissect them and examine the gonadal tissue under a microscope, a wholly impractical option from the standpoint of keeping the fishes alive), and the literature has, at various times, quoted all manner of alleged 'gender separation' characteristics that, upon later analysis, have all proven to be unreliable.

Thus far, the ONLY reliable characteristic I can find in the literature that has stood the test of time is the shape of the genital papilla (the protrusion from the vent that appears during mating). If the profile of the genital papilla is that of a stout tube, more or less cylindrical, only marginally narrower at the extremity, then that is a female ovipositor. If the profile is that of a longer, more markedly conical, tapering tube, then that is a male genital papilla. While a ripe female has a fuller belly, thanks to the interesting body morphoology of the Angel Fish, this is best seen from directly above, as the fullness doesn't make much impact upon what is already a disc shaped body viewed from the normal viewing position. Even viewed head on, the fullness may not be immediately apparent because the head obscures the detail. Consequently, ripe females tend to show their ripeness best when viewed from directly above, just to make life even harder for the aquarist!

Now, as to the fact that your 'couple', whatever they may turn out to be, are in some sense 'dysfunctional', at least from your standpoint, remember that you're dealing with a highly evolved fish, possessed of considerable intellect, and which has furthermore evolved a set of complex social rituals to cover aspects such as guarding territory, courting, mating and caring for fry. Having watched them in action myself as a teenager (my Angel Fishes were the first egglayers I spawned incidentally!) I can tell you that some couples, as you have observed, bill and coo like doves in a nest, while others have altogether more fiery romantic entanglements. However, the fact that a pair of Angel Fishes may seem to be bickering constantly need not detract from the fact that they are excellent breeders - just like some humans, couples that seem to the causal observer to be woefully ill matched and simmering on the edge of combat, can sometimes turn out to be very closely bonded, and furthermore become exemplary parents. Others, however, can be a complete disaster from start to finish.

The moral here is that you can never make a mistake by over-estimating a fish's intelligence. You can make plenty by under-estimating its intelligence though.

Infertile eggs soon make themselves apparent. They'll turn an opaque white colour and devlop a coating of fungal fur on them in a few days, unless the Angels eat them first. Fertile eggs, on the other hand, stay translucent until they start developing little black dots - those dots are the eyes of the baby fishes, and eggs in this condition are said to be "eyed up". If you end up with a batch of eggs that are "eyed up", then you've DEFINITELY got a male/female pair (fully functional too) and the patter of tiny fins is, barring any egg eating by the parents, imminent.

Oh, quite a few Angels make bad parents for the first couple of spawns, then suddenly the instincts start to kick in properly and they become exemplary parents from that point on. Others continue to be incompetent in this regard. In the latter case, removal of the eggs and artificial raising is the only option sadly. However, if you DO end up with a pair of good parents that care for their fry properly, it's beautiful to watch, and their display would shame quite a few humans whose parenting skills are dire by comparison!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Yeah the fighting sounds about right. I had my angelfish for about a year and a half before they first bred, and they were constantly fighting untill that day. Then they bred, and then the eggs got eaten and they carried on fighting (quite intensly actually and i got a bit worried lol) untill the next time etc etc.

The eggs all turned white, I guess that they did not get firtilized, does that mean there isnt a viable one in the bunch or should i give a day and see if any of them hatch?
Does this happen sometimes even if you have a pair that are capable of breeding or is it a lost cause?

Its the first time i have ever found eggs from these two so I am still uncertain if i have a male and female at this point if in fact a female will lay her eggs regardless.

I'd leave the eggs in there, doubt they'd do any harm. The angels will probably end up eating them if they arn't fertilised.

It may take a few attempts for the pair to get a successfull brood.

Hi there,
it is possible the male didnt fertilize them
properly, assuming you have a male. However,
even an unexperienced male should get a few.
Viable eggs look like little golden globes of success,
I always say. Nice, plump, and a golden shiny color.
White eggs are definitely not fertile.
I would suppose you have 2 females.
If you could post a pic of the genital pores of the
fish next time this happens, we can probably team up here
and give you a good ID of gender.

Even though secondary sex characteristics in Angels
are minimal at best, espescially in young adults,
there are a few differences that you may spot if you
look carefully.
Males as they age, may develop a nuchal hump on their head. It will be noticeably different than the females smooth rounded head. This may not appear till 5-7 or even 10-12 years of age though, and not all males gain this.

Another characteristic to look for is the space between
the pectoral fins and anal fin.
In males this space is quite horizontal, not much slope
to it. In females, this space often descends very vertically from front to back. Females also may be more rounded in this area.

Also, the behaviour of the fish could be an indicator.
In the breeding pair I had (may they rest in peace, pete and sid), the male would clean leaves much more frantically than the female. He would patrol much more often, and was markedly more aggressive than his female counterpart. However - Im not sure if thats true of all angels....I am sure some females are just as aggressive as the males....that was just the case in mine, but could be something to look for.


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Thanks for all the great feedback, I will take some pix next time this occurs. I think I can tell who is male and who is female by their breeding tubes being slightly different and the male appeared to be trying to firtilize the eggs, but I just cant be certain.

I will keep you posted, Have you any idea how often this Angels will try to breed>?
I was thinking like once a month but I cant remember for sure. I know they are only probably a year old or so. They got a long way to go before I see any male hump =)