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hi all,
i have a pair of angels that i purchased as youngsters. they have grown up together in a heavily planted south american themed tank and have always got along greatly. they started spawning a couple of months ago and all seemed well and happy (despite the eggs always being eaten by their tank mates!).

of late i have noticed one of the angels whom i believe to be the female (although am unsure) to be bullying the other and the last couple of days they have lip locked as soon as i turn the light on, then they calm down and are back to normal.

i was worried there may have been something wrong with bullied fellow as in my previous experiences i have encountered sick fish being harrassed by their friends. there are no out ward signs of injury or disease, although today he is swimming in a slightly more vertical position then usual. i have dosed with a general multi cure medication as a precaution.

is this behaviour typical of breeding angels who are having problems hatching eggs or could there be a problem with one of them?

i have recently added a batch of new plants and started dosing a low dose of flourish excel every 2 days. which has coincided with the change in behavior.

all the parameters seem ideal
amm 0
nitrates 5
nitrites 0
ph7
gh5
kh2
temp 25

anybody had similar experiences?

It does sound like typical Angel behaviour. Even breeding pairs fight and it can get pretty nasty. Gratz on the spawning though. Any room for a breeding tank setup or to move the tankmates to another tank ?

The Amazon Nut...

cheers bro but no- there seems to be a disease involved, may have carried in on the plants i put in. i tried using a multi cure but could see no outward sign of disease so waited for 3 days then tried dosing with octivin (anti internal parasite) for want of a better cure. also daily mela fix for de stress. anyways seemed to be getting better and the other angel has stopped attacking him but today he is sat on the bottom of the tank- i think the trouble is in his pectoral fins which is stopping him from swimming and hence the reduced manouverability and up ward angle swimming.

anyways i think hes a gonner he is my favourite fish, i couldnt face euthanising him so i will watch incase theres any hope he will get better and then see what to do.

Sorry to hear of your angel problem.

Upward swimming is not good Water parameters are good. If the fish is getting bullied/chased often with angels that will cause external wounds, which paves the way for bacterial infection or parasites. Any outside damage ? Scales missing etc ? Is it 'itching', not eating ?
Stringy white poop or lack of any ?

Parasites CAN migrate in on a plant, but this is not common. May I suggest making a post in the Hospital section with any other info ? I'm not sure if air bladder disease, heximita, sheer stress of being bullied etc.. More knowledgable folks there for this. Good luck

The Amazon Nut...

yeah there is a small red sore at the base of the pectoral fin- have dosed and anti internal parasite formula incase he has an inner infection- octozin. hmm he actually looks in pretty good helth except for the fact that he cant swim which is unusual to see. any body know a medicine i could apply directly to the wound to help it heal?

If it has visible external damage like you describe it's hard to say if it's an external parasite or damage obtained in the bullying.

Dosing various meds as guesswork may do more harm then good.

Isolating the fish where it can't be bullied in it's condition also recommended.

Hoping you'll get help in the hospital thread soon.
Good luck, hang in there Fandan.

The Amazon Nut...

thanks damossman.

yeah i heed what your saying with the meds- i have done a large scale water change and am doing continual small changes in case the cycle is disturbed and to keep the water as polished as possible. the other fish seem unaffected by any side effects, tho im not going to dose anything else than melafix for now. he's isolated, though still in the main tank. the wounds have healed up quite well and his frayed tail has started to re nit where it had started to split down the spines but he still cant swim. hes feeding well which is good and he can now move around, mostly lunging forward. his tail and fins are all moving. i dose melafix daily and have my fingers crossed.

i had a death in another tank- one of my other favorite fish, a red jewel. i am wandering if i triggered both injuries when i did both tanks water changes, i used water out of the hot tap to match the temperatures instead of the kettle which i normally use. i changed both tanks on the same day and my other tanks are unaffected (which i didnt change that day). maybe i have introduced some metal poisoning or something. i don't know. if so hopefully the water changes will clear this up.

as for the external parasite question- he seemed at one stage to have some threads protruding from his flank,tho i also wander if that was damage done to his skin (in a similar sense to the frayed fins). i have no idea, they dislodged straight away in the salt bath.

my fingers are firmly crossed!

well he seems to be almost better! he's started swimming in small bouts inside his small divider and the other angel has been up checking him out! he was more active yesterday- doing laps of the divider though not swimming more lunging (and at a rate of about one lap every couple of hours!). today he has some buoyancy back and can lift himself. i was tempted to let him out but discovered he was still having trouble so i am going to keep him in for another day and hopefully he can be free tomorrow!

i cant quite believe it!

edit: well its 2moro and i decided to let him make his own mind up- i lowered the net so he could swim out on his own accord if he wanted too.

he did and immediately swam to his partner who was somewhat surprised but welcomed him amicably enough. however he could only swim in small bursts and then languished on rocks so i have returned him to his net and given them all an early night! at least there i can monitor what/that he eats.

fingers crossed again i guess