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* forgot a bout flowerhorn*
1 dovi
2 jag
3 Green terror
4 red terror
5 flowerhorn

All of which tells me, Jason, that the species in question that CAN hybridise have probably only recently separated out from each other - there's a parallel situation in tropical butterflies with some of the Papilio rumanzovia group. They're treated as separate species, but can still produce fertile hybrids with each other. However, given the greater complexity of vertebrates, I owuld have though it less likely to occur in vertebrates than in insects.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

So if the "Green Terrors" aren't true rivulatus, and are all hybrids, how come they're fertile? I'm sure Flowerhorns aren't fertile,

Like Greenmonkey said, the species are so closely related that the resulting fry are fertile. Also, I know a lot of people on other boards that breed flowerhorns. Some have breeding pairs of flowerhorns and others have a single flowerhorn breeding with another type of cichlid such as a midas or red devil. any Cryptoheros species can cross with each other and I'd be willing to bet their fry would also be fertile. I believe you're more likely to wind up with sterile fish if you breed 2 fish that are not of the same genus. for instance if you breed a Jack Dempsey with a Texas cichlid, there's a good chance you'd wind up with sterile fry.

Jason

ps. I have read of people with breeding pairs of Male Midas/red devil and a female blood parrot/jellybean parrot.

Im not sure if it matters how closely there related. I'd more likely put it down to a few genetic amomilies.

they're fertile because the species that breed are so close together in genetic makeup that it doesn't matter

So if the "Green Terrors" aren't true rivulatus, and are all hybrids, how come they're fertile? I'm sure Flowerhorns aren't fertile, and the same would probably apply to a range of Cichlid crosses.

Hmm, yet more puzzling for me to do ...

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

The problem with Green Terrors is that they are all hybrids of up to 6 different closely related species. The true Aequidens rivulatus has been absent from the hobby for ~15 years and was only re-introduced in the last few weeks. Once some of these guys that made that list keep a true A. rivulatus there may be some changes in order for that list. I've heard the true A. rivulatus rivals a Red Devil or Midas in aggression.

One thing to consider that I didn't mention before is that list was comprised by some very experienced cichlidophiles. ...guys that have been keeping and breeding these fish for decades. One of the major considerations with that list was consistency in aggression from individual fish to fish. The reason Red Devils and Midas' are so low is that there is a much more likely chance that you'll find a tame Red Devil or Midas whereas about any N. beani you find will be about the same in temperament. A highly aggressive Red Devil or Midas would be very comparable in temperament to any N. beani. The odds of finding a tame or 'not overly aggressive' N. beani is pretty much non-existent.

Jason

While deferring to Jason's expertise, I'm surprised that Green Terrors are so low down compared to some others. Which means that Nandopsis beani at number one must be a total psychopath of a fish ...

As for Red Terrors, even juveniles are volcanic in temperament, I saw some at Maidenhead Aquatics and they were squaring up for a fight with anyone who passed by their aquarium!

I've also seen the odd Green Terror in action. Not for the faint hearted I can tell you

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

For its size I rarely see my Jewel back down to anyone, a lot like the Con in that aspect. My Jewel even chased my Oscars!

Victorian Lake Cichlids (freaking fast attackers)..and African Zebras..these fish are nutz :%)
Blackbelt
Dovil
Red Devil
Red Terror
Trim
Jag

[span class="edited"][Edited by 2004-07-30 21:41][/span]

thats how i said to measure aggressivness pound for pound thats why i like the colbat zeeb it could destroy any fish the same sive as it.

those other species wouldn't be an oscar. the only species of oscar is Astronotus ocellatus. they would be relatives but not the same thing

On other sites when people refer to the other Astronotus spp. they still call them 'Oscars'. This includes Jeff Rapps who is one of the few, if not the only importer of rare Astronotus spp. So it all depends on your perspective and point of view I guess.

Jason

those other species wouldn't be an oscar. the only species of oscar is Astronotus ocellatus. they would be relatives but not the same thing

Isn't flowerhorn a hybrid?? I thought he said no hybrids lol but they're pretty aggressive as far as i know

I know this isn't directly thread related but I'd say convicts must be the most aggressive (inch for inch) cichlid. The ones I owned were as evil as any others I've seen in the flesh.

I was just wondering what you all think is the top five most aggressive cichlids? No hybrids allowd lol.
Here's mine 1) Red Devil
2) Jag.
3) Green Terror
4) Oscar
5) Convict

1) Dovii
2) Red Devil
3) Jaguar
4) Flowerhorn
5) Red Terror

6x2x2 - Firemouth and Oscar Tank
30+ royal pythons.

Back in the game after 4 years out ..

I agree Jason with the Oscar but I was doing it as an example for the most aggressive fish, the top 2 may vary in aggressiveness between fish

there are different species of oscar than just Astronotus oscellatus. There is also Astronotus orbicularis and Astronotus crassipinnis. There is speculated to be several other yet to be identified Astronotus species.

I do agree that some oscars are more aggressive than others, but on average, most oscars would not compare to any of the fish on the list I posted.

Jason

I didnt mean species as in species I meant t as in different Oscars as i Oscar 1 could be less agressive than Oscar 2 etc