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depends.. what are the otehr tankmates.

if nothing, i would try kribensis. they breed kinda easy and are somewhat small.

and later one if u like cichlids, i would recomend convicts but for a 30-55 gallon tank for a breedign pair.

I was to going to try something new, if i was to get some small cichlids that won't grow too large, what would be some suggestions. Would i be able to stock a 20 gal. with some small cichlids, if so how many? Is there a special habitat that they enjoy or thrive in?


http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com
http://www.hawknelson.com

Some typical small species suggestions:

Apistogramma species
Mikrogeophagus species (commonly called "rams" )
Laetacara species
Keyhole cichlids
Kribensis
Checkerboard cichlids
Shelldwelling species (from African rift lakes)

Most of the above are usually available in any given area provided you look hard enough, and can all be kept in a twenty gallon tank. The number you can keep depends on the species you choose and what you plan to keep with the cichlids. The listed species (with the exception of the shellies) tend to prefer a neutral to acidic pH, but usually don't need it to thrive. They're pretty adaptable.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

There are definitely a number of choices for a 20g.

I personally love shellies, and just a small number of multies would become a nice colony in the not too distant future. Multies don't require sand like other shellies but they do like lots & lots of shells. The shells and a thin layer of sand of crushed coral would help buffer the water.

A fish I recently purchased that would also work in a 20g is Julidochromis regani. There are other julies too...they all have an interesting body shape and coloring/patterning. My avatar is a J. regani 'Kipili'.

You can also check this link for other 20g ideas.

Good luck

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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

Ok, that gives me a better idea of what to do, but where do i get the fine sand to put in the tank, and can i put in any shells, or any rocks, or is there a specific type i need? And what do you mean by crushed coral?



http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com
http://www.hawknelson.com

Play sand is very fine. Just make sure to rinse it like it's contaminated with something deadly...(in other words...rinse it...a LOT)

Crushed coral is commonly used as a substrate or in the filter in tanks that require higher pH and hardness. It will raise pH and hardness and you can usually get it at your lfs. From what I hear/read it is an excellent buffer for tanks.

Ok, thank you for all the help, i will have to do that.

http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com
http://www.hawknelson.com

Hey Mike,

Shellies are generally VERY hard to find around here, and if you CAN find them, they're usually rather expensive ($20 is the cheapest I've found for a multifascus, methinks). If you really want to go with shellies, you'll probably have to order them off of the net. And you'll have to use crushed coral or baking soda to buffer the pH, etc, etc...

IMO it'd be easier and cheaper to go with some species of american cichlid, like Kribensis. Kribs are about $5 here (if I remember correctly), wouldn't need sand, wouldn't need a buffered or different pH (the tap's pH is just fine for them), and I think your mom would like Kribs better anyway (they've got brighter colors...purple and yellow and black and stuff, where as shellies are black and whitish/greyish and blueish, but still very cute none the less ).

I dunno, you can do whatever ya want, but I think you'd be happier with Kribs, and so would your wallet...

Just my $0.02

Krib's.....last time I check were africans.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Bah, my bad, I think you're right on that'n

Sorry, I'm braindead today, and I'm not much of a cichlid person

Anyway, IMO, you'd probably be happier w/Kribs than w/ Shellies, Mike

I really like rams. How hard are they to maintain? Are they hard to breed? Anad what type of environment do they thrive in?

http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com
http://www.hawknelson.com

From what I've heard, rams are a pain in the rear to keep alive if you don't have everything right for them, and they're rather sensitive to hardness...

You'd REALLY have to keep up on waterchanges, and really know what yer doin'... I dunno...

There's more sensitive fish out there than rams, but rams are rather nitpicky about their water conditions...

Lets put it this way, Joe and Tyler couldn't keep rams alive for more than a few weeks, and Joe knows WAY more about fish stuff than you and I... dunno about Tyler tho

I still think Kribs would be good, but watev...

German rams (Mikrogeophagus ramirezi) are known to be demanding fish, and need high water quality. They do best in tanks with live plants and without boisterous fish to bother them. These rams do better when treated like discus, i.e. the tank is planned around the rams instead of them just being a part of the mix.

Bolivian rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) are a different story. They are actually pretty hardy, and tolerate a wider range of water parameters. They are also not too difficult to breed, especially if kept in groups of four or greater. This often results in one or more pairs forming, with eggs and fry resulting down the line. Many times a male and a female kept together are much more reluctant.

Both types of rams prefer tanks of at least twenty gallons in size with plenty of plants and other objects. It seems that these fish are fairly social, and best survive when kept in groups. They will build relationships with one another, some fish being bullied and some lording it over the others. Each species of ram prefers an acidic pH, but can tolerate one that is basic. Bolivian rams are more forgiving in this case than the German rams are.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I would definatly stay away from Mikrogeophagus ramirezi as they are extremely demanding and e to parasites. Look into apistogrammas species they are very colorful and not too demanding.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

I saw at the store some veiltail rams are those simaler to any of the kinds you listed, or are they a whole new story?

http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com
http://www.hawknelson.com

Veiltail rams are a variation of the German ram. There are other mutations of the same species, including gold rams, balloon rams, and the "Singapore" ram, which I have never seen.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

So would this fit in to the category of demanding rams?

http://www.thousandfootkrutch.com
http://www.hawknelson.com

Yep. It seems that all of the "breeds" of M. ramirezi share the characteristic of being tough to care for. I find that M. altispinosus is a much tougher fish, and there are others on this forum who agree.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."