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Ok, i posted that my flowerhorn killed my jack dempsey, and it seems now that she just sits in her caves sulking now that shes alone. she does eat. but its so weird what she did and her actions nows.

and no way i'm putting someone else in there with her..... unless i just put in a very strong divider. but even that i would seriously think about.

anybody else every have a cichlid do this?

Fish tanks are an expensive addiction

I had the same exact thing happen to me actually. I had bought two 3-striped Damsels and one killed the other one because they're really territorial and aggressive. As soon as I removed the dead one, the other one just hid inside this cave decor that I have and stayed there for hours. As soon as that happened, I brought up the situation here and no one seemed to act too surprised about it. A few hours later, he came out and started to swim around again, so I suppose in a matter of time she'll be out and about again as well. I wouldn't start to worry unless it gets to a point where she stays like that for a day or so and won't want to eat.
As for putting another fish in with her, I'm not too sure what to do about that. Is the fish just naturally agressive against others or is she just territorial? If she is, I would suggest moving around the decor in the tank to make it seem unfamiliar and put her in after you put in the new fish. It worked for me when I put a clown in with my damsel after he terrorized the last fish. [Your tank is gorgeous, by the way!]

1 Ocellaris Clown: $14.95...1 Pink Dottyback: $12.99...1 Three Striped Damsel: $4.50...1 Blue Velvet Damsel: $8.95
The Problems that come with them: Priceless

Thats classic flowerhorn behaviour, they often try to totally exterminate cagemates, they are an undeniably aggressive species hybrid,with more than a touch of midas cichlid in them.

Now the competition is gone she may not have much to do.A lot of people have described their behaviour as freakish, but to be honest they may simply be exactly the same temperament as a midas or a red devil but possibly with hyperactive sexual hormones raging in their veins. Consequently they tend not to tolerate cagemates, or even each other very well, and kill most fish in their territorial area as soon as they begin to mature.

I suppose a way round it would to be to have another flowerhorn or distantly related cichlid within visual range of her tank, but not actually in with her. It would give her something to go on patrol for, and keep her busy without actually letting her kill anything.

Flowerhorns are often very sexual , very aggressive, and dont get the communication with other fish right, even their own bloodline progenitor species. They are also re-engineered if you will, by breeders for those extreme lumpy heads etc, and you cant do that without radically increasing the sexual dominance of the the fish, so basically breeders are creating superaggressive specimens and its getting worse. When other fish get the option to breed they take it , or often have a behavioural limit on how far theyre willing to go,but that isnt the case with flowerhorns, it typically just degenerates into violence.

This is a fish that may end up "living for conflict" , neither happy when fighting because of the injuries, and bored when theres no serious social activity to engage in, so I say, let them look and not touch.

If you have the cash just put a flowerhorn, midas, or devil in a tank next to her, and they can aggravate each other to their hearts content without the real stress of injury involved.I suppose you could fit a heavy divider, like 6 mm perspex drilled with hundreds of holes and smoothed at the hole edges, and firmly siliconed into place, but it better not move, as in ever.lol.

Its common for flowerhorns to have to live out their lives in single specimen tanks.But two flowerhorns will have the same emotional needs, and wont get too depressed about the visual threats as long as their not allowed to actually rip each other apart, so perhaps two flowerhorns are better than one. Having a male next door might give her an unending interest and will to live, and neither one will be suboordinated if kept seperated, but within the range of sight and smell contact. If they start hammering the divider too much, dmaging their mouths etc, you could design it so that an opaque insert could be put in and removed again as necessary.

ahhhh so it did finally happen,remember i said that fhs were well known for this,living with whateva for how ever long,then booooom,its time to kill everything in site,and now that you fh has killed,and is in a tank on its own,it will want to keep it this way,and it will do whatevar it takes to keep it that way,about the only thing that will be ok in there now,is a male fh,with a super strong well ancored see throo divider,and even then it can be a pain in the bum,and very time cosuming,from watching how they are with each other.now about being bored,i get this all the time,with my big fella,thats a bit of a wives tale,i personally know and talk to fh breeders,and except for the odd pair,they are kept alone 99% of the time man,there is things you can do,to interact with your fh,but these arent necessary,i sometimes play with mine,by GENTALY rapping your fingers along the glass,she will play with you,if YOU put in the time,i have a fake plastic fish on a piece of fishing line,and my fella goes crazy for it,or you can show her a mirror,but i dont recomend that 1,my guy just goes ballistic,when shown a mirror,then he proceeds to flair up his gills,then he pulls of my filter intake attatchment,also they love to chase down and devour good clean feeder fish,great for bringing out there teeth,also with what longhair said,with putting your fh tank to close to another,i did that exact same thing,trying to combat bordem,and when my fh figuerd out,that he could not go throo the glass to get to the fish,he started jumping and bashing into the lid to see if he could go that way,they are extremly nasty and just as smart,i think i mite have told you,that mine once done more damage to himself knocking down a divider to kill a male convict.honestly man take it from me,and a stack of pro fh breeders,even thow she mite show some bordem,if she did not want to be alone she would not have killed her tankmate,theres a big difference between showing whos boss,and wanting the whole tank to herself,the longer she is alone the harder it will be trying to get a partner for her too,also if your woried about her sulking,fish have moods just like we do,even they have days where they seem down.i rekon she wil be fine man,they are 1 tuff fish,give her a big feed of bloodworms,my fella seems to love going around his condo,getting every last worm.even then if that dosent work,its still ok,my guy every so often goes on a food strike.but all in all,she is just being a typical fh,and if you think she is nasty now,wait untill you see her with a partner in full swing with a huge batch of babies,they will take chunks of the back of your hand,no joke,and last of all,my guy has killed or flogged,EVREY FISH,ive tryed to mix with him,execpt his girlfriend,but they will spawn,but will not live together,my mates i spoke of above keep his girlie.if you want to know more man let me know,the fhs are where i would be most helpfull,because of the ivaulable addvice i get from the pros,that i speak to.anyway good luck with her,and dont get to dishearted,she will come around.

longhairedgit, i had been thinking about that idea after reading this. the divider idea that is. i may do that when i get back. and then leave them together until one of them is to big. as far as tank next to tank, i would love to, but with how all my tanks are setup, there is a 20g community right next to it with no room to put anything bigger.

but I was thinking about finding either a large firemouth, or maybe another flowerhorn her size for the other side. not sure as of yet.

i guess now is when i wish i thought about this fish before i setup my 150g, then i would have put the thick divider in and got one for each side and not worried.

or if i was a sick sadistic person, i'd put her in there with them and clean house. but trust me, even with my crazy mind. i would never think about doing anything like that on purpose.

Fish tanks are an expensive addiction

Having a nicely designed partition in that 150 would seem to be the answer, but I appreciate getting one installed would require a breakdown of the tank for at least 24 hours so it might not be practical for you. Thats the trouble with flowerhorns in a way, breeders have multiple tanks often numbering in the hundreds, and unlimited options to try combinations of fish until compatible specimens, progenitor species and the flowerhons themselves can be recombined for development,but its incredibly hard to emulate that situation the home.

I guess if you could find a huge wheelibin, or massive tub for cheap, perhaps even a kiddies paddling pool or something you could swap out the flowerhorn the substrate,the water and the filter into while you set up the partition and give the silicon sealant for the partition time to cure.

Obviously you could measure up and make the partition while everything is still running.

I thought about swapping the 2 occupants. but with how many are in the 150, i'm very hesitant about putting them in the 55g. the angels protect their areas heavily now, i couldnt imagin the 6 of them in a 55g and no way i'm letting go of my clowns.

but i'll figure something out soon enough

Fish tanks are an expensive addiction

Oh yeah, be careful about putting that flowerhorn with anything else, it would probably slaughter moody angelfish.

Hi Guys,

I am new here but been raising flowerhorns for around 3 to 4 years. I have seen many ways that a flowerhorn can live with other breeds. First thing is you will need big tank.
Second is that you need more than just one or two smaller cichlids for them to chase. If it is just one, then it will die. If you put more like 4 to 5, most of them will survive because the flowerhorn will not be able to concentrate all its energy into just one fish and 5 smaller fish can easily distract him. Anyways, its nice to see some people in here have flowerhorn. Please check my thread and let me know what you think of my Jayjay.

Best Regards,
Chingmixusa

Giving them small cichlids to chase isnt humane, and it actually contravenes several animal welfare laws concerned with long term suffering, although thats dependant on the location you live in.

They dont usually wane and die on their own, in fact most specimens in the world are kept as single specimens out of necessity, since many if not most of these fish are hyperaggressive killers.Even mating attempts with their own hybrid species have to be approached with care. I agree that company is nice for them, but its not nice for the other fish usually. When were talking flowerhorns, cagemates often need to be bigger, from twice to three times the size, and that will mean tanks of anything up to a 1000 gal to totally quell aggression.

A few specimens will be less aggressive than others and perhaps they can be kept with fish of equal strength, but assuming that is how your flowerhorn will work, and trying smaller fish with them as a standard practice is a rather unenlightened view that usually leads to tank chaos and fish deaths. Im not arguing about live feeds, especially if the flowerhorn finishes the small prey quickly, but keeping midsize fish in with a flowerhorn to be victimised on a daily basis is something no reputable fishkeeper would engage in, even if the flowerhorn appreciates it. Its like giving a vicious dog a cat to toy with. To me at least, its verging on the psychopathic, and I dont think an animal lover would ever do this.

There is quite a large and sick subculture of fishkeepers who allow big aggressive fish and predators to torture small ones, and these people are akin to badger baiters, dogfighters and cockfighters , and I dont think its something any moral or enlightened person should engage in, especially for the sake of a non-natural, hyperaggressive hybrid species that contributes nothing to the environment. Fish should not be put into a position of prolongued suffering for the joy of a sick keeper , or their aggressive fish, even live feeds should be quick and handled as humanely as possible.

It goes against everything that good fishkeepers believe in to allow one fish to torture another, it isnt natural behaviour, its a captive enforced sufferance, and it is illegal in many cases. Keeping fish in a glass box with no route of escape can in no way be considered natural, it would be rather like me putting you in a prison cell with a 300 pound psychopathic cannibal with sexual rage issues, which lets face it, is pretty much a flowerhorns take on life. Ive kept aggressive species before, in fact I have a small fleet of them, but never in a million years would I have ever considered giving them a species to take their frustration and territoriality out on, to me , its animal abuse pure and simple. There is absolutely no need for it, and I spend a great deal of my time managing that aggression so that no fish is injured or stressed. To sacrifice healthy cichlids for the sake of a psychologically malajusted hybrid is pretty much the lowest end of fishkeeping, right there with putting goldfish in bowls, and not performing water changes, allowing them to die of disease untreated etc..

While I would say your flowerhorn is in superb form, and obviously well looked after, you might wanna take another look at the moral principles of animal keeping. Excellence in flowerhorn keeping is as easily achieved without the suffering of other fish.

Think of this not as a slam (puts on inquisition hat) but as a chance to re-evaluate a moral standing, and become in harmony with the creatures around you, to nobly protect the animals around you,

... and if I may use a reference from an old and fabulous british comic 2000AD , in particular the excellent strip called "Nemesis the Warlock" and warp it to my own satisfaction ...

"Anyone having truck with fish abusers goes to the vats! Be pure, be vigilant, behave!"


Ill return to normal now , lol, any hint of fishy abuse does unexpectedly tend to bring the Tomas de Torquemada out in me

Seriously though, this is a fish wherein absolute respect has to be given to its carnage inducing abilities. In times of hormonal activity even a previously tolerant specimen can carve a bloody swathe of destruction through a community tank of all but the largest fish. Most specimens will be too aggressive for community, and the level of injury that some flowerhorn owners get used to should not be considered a good standard in fishkeeping. This is a large , powerful and highly territorial fish, that when it chooses will exterminate the entire contents of a large aquarium, and will make life for the fish around it an abject misery. Pacificm here, not aggression, is the exception to the rule.

"Nobody expects the spanish inquisition" REPENT!

Sorry but i do need to say you are a bit over exagerating about flowerhorns.
I have many friends that have a community with one flowerhorn and these fish pay
not attention to the other fishes. They live quite peacefully after they have establish
themselve in the tank. A large Flowerhorn is a bit slower than pure species that are
slender and fast. With multiple faster pure species like african cichlids and also silver
dollars, the flowerhorn have no chance at all in catching them, unless you only have a
15gal tank which space is problem. A 150gal tank is nice size tank to have this type
of community tank. With multiple amounts of faster fishes, the flowerhorn will be tired
before it even has a chance to catch one and therefore, it will stop and give up and live
peacefully in the tank. I have seen the most aggressive flowerhorn change and become
peacefully when placed in this type of environment. So, it does take knowledge and
experience to understand these types of fishes. Not just an average Joe will know how
to take care and provide the right types of environment.

This is the reason I was sharing my information with monkeyboy so that we can learn
and understand how to take care and at the same time enjoy other species in the same
tank. For you to say that I am making the fish suffer is your ideas. And I must say is not
True and really exagerated.

Then we will have to agree to disagree. Some people see the potential abuse of fish , others dont I guess. Whether its blindness , lack of empathy, perhaps even logic I cant say, all I know is that a fish that lives out its life as a toy for an territorial predator lives a life of misery and constant fear.

A flowerhorn get tired hmmm. How long does that take I wonder. Most cichlids I know can fight all day, and keep up a more or less incessant search for food.

Theres exaggeration and then theres choosing not to witness suffering in your midst to fit your own purposes. Thats really the last I can be bothered to say on the subject. And for your information, I am well aware of what is true, and these amateurish attempts to place a community around a flowerhorn only lead to suffering, be it from direct violence, or the long term ailments that come from suffering stress. I dont think most people reading this will take too long to figure out who is correct.

Its idiotic to put small fish in with predatory territorial species at the best of times, and with the additional aggression a flowerhorn has over even these cichlids, it becomes ludicrous . This isnt fine tuning cichlid care, neither is it advanced hobbyism, its the naivete of the beginner. Its dangerous to fish, full stop.Stressed fish may get ill and pass diseases on to your prized fish too. Its about having respect for all species , so that they can live out their lives without fear. We should be doing better, not worse. To you its toying, to the fish its life or death. Real fun huh?

It takes more than an average joe to realise they may turn at any time,that any peace may be temporary depending on the fish's hormonal and emotional state, and how inneffably strong its instincts may be, but it takes a distinctly average joe to put fish in with a teritorial predator. Its a common, widespread and profound beginners mistake. Everything seems fine until the day it isnt. The one thing that I have noticed with such people is that when their fish does kill others and prove them wrong, they dont tend to publicise the fact, because obviously , it makes them look stupid.

This isnt a new knowledge or a new technique,target theory, and dither fish have been tried on and off with different species for decades, and certainly as long as flowerhorns have existed, its a classic bit of dangerous ignorance that comes round every few years with renewed vigour until people get sick of the fish deaths and realise the people who told them to try it didnt have as much knowledge as they appeared to have, and it all fades out again, only to emerge a while later when a new bunch of green keepers thinks it might be a good idea. Get a few more years of fishkeeping under your belt, and youll see what I mean, honestly.

Round and round it goes , where it stops nobody knows. But personally I wish it would stop. I used to work in animal rescue and rescued fish that were the mutilated survivors of such attempts, and had to rehome fish when people had their fish confiscated for the abuses. I dont exaggerate on this extremely serious issue.

Well,
Check this community tank brotha and maybe you will learn that you may be wrong.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a92/Jam420/gallery_1_306_130082.jpg
i still think your exagerating.
but lets keep it peaceful.

Peace
Chingmixusa

As responded to in the other thread, thats just a barren block of water a la petshop. It denies the fish their natural behaviour, its the poor end of fishkeeping. Its doing all the things that petshops do, avoiding territory which is important to the fish, and it gives them no mental stimulation or indulgence for natural behaviour, hence the fish react abnormally. The territorial ovestock means that no fish claims territory, and the featurelessness enforces this.

Its a wholesalers trick not thought of as appropriate housing by most people,usually that type of keeping is intended for temporary accomodation to stop large numbers of fish from fighting until they reach destination. The fishkeeping hobby has moved on.

well shes staying in her own tank all alone from now on, and i just heard from my friend and she said that the FH is back to her normal strange self.

that picture.. i'm sorry, just looks like a poorly planned tank. i'd rather have a nice decorated tank with a few fish, than many and it looks like junk. but thats just me

Fish tanks are an expensive addiction

anyways, good luck to you and your projects.
I am setting up another tank for display so, i do hope to make it look nice.
Have a great day.

Chingmixusa

*Cringes at completely overstocked pathetic tank that keeps getting posted* Poor fishies. They have such a miserable life in there.

Before this thread gets out of hand, I am closing it. The basics of the original post of this thread, have been discussed and disputed.

There are many different oppinions about personalities and behaviors of all fish. As well there are many different experiences of people with all fishes.

As for the hybrid fishes, people have different points of view on them. I have my person views as well. This site does not deter the discussion of such fish, however it does deny profiles being posted/listed of them.

As for theories, a theory is neither truth nor non-truth. By definition, a theory is contemplation or speculation, or in other words an idea or thought that cannot be disproven. Once a theory is proved it is then a fact. Once a theory is disproved it is then no longer a theory.

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There is always a bigger fish...