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This is to eliviate some confusion I had at the fish store recently. I think the fish in question were german rams, or rams at least. All the fish were the same species and there were about 8 in the tank. The only way to describe what I saw is by reference to yellow school busses. There were the normal fish, ie the normal busses and then the short bus version of the same fish. The front and tail of these fish were about the same, but the middle seemed compressed. The fishes were the same hight also, so its not that these were juvaniles. They just seemed squished. Mabey I can get pics, but is it possible that mabey these fish were grown in a tiney tank and so they grew shorter as I heard some fish can (though its supposed to be bad for them, and the short fish didnt seem so livley as the normal ones).

Chaos

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Those are probably Baloon Rams. A rather ugly (IMO) version of the Rams.

Chaos,

What you saw is probably the version that is also known as Balloon Rams. I find them ugly as the "normal" Ram has a beautiful body as it is.

I have seen these types over the time in quite a few LFSs but I cannot get used to them.

Ingo

EDIT: didn't see Tetra Fan's response, but great minds think alike

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 14-Jan-2006 10:15

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, sounds like it. They are have a bloated look to the midsection and because of it look very short.

Chaos,
Due yourself a big favor and don't bother with any form of Blue/German Ram. They don't hold up well. They require mature, very clean water with a stress free environment and even if that is given to them they are e to internal parasite and simply fade away. Other rams like the bolivians and keyholes are much better choices. Many people impulse buy blue rams because of their saltwater like color. If you evey going into a LFS when they are cleaning out the dead fish, most will be in the german ram tank.

My Scapes

I wouldn't dissmiss Rams because of there notorious "bad health". I personally bought 4 Blue's and added them to a freshly cycled 55 gallon with no problems whatsoever. (though I really don't recommend doing this). I have had them for about 2 months, and so far not one sign of illness.

I think it is unfair to tell someone not to get them because they are "always" unhealthy. They really are not even as delicate as Discus.

Have you ever kept Blue Rams? (just curious)

Last edited by Tetra Fan at 14-Jan-2006 10:27

I have had them for about 2 months, and so far not one sign of illness.

Tetrafan, when you've had your rams more than a year, than please drop me a pm or send me an email. Many times rams will look good for many months and then succumb.

Yes I've kept german rams and kept some up to about 8 months and they eventually did develop internal infections. I could link you to thread after thread of experienced aquarists who have discussed the internal parasite issue with german/blue rams.

So when I speak about them I am speaking about my personal experience as well as others with far greater experience than my own.

Last edited by tetratech at 14-Jan-2006 10:39

My Scapes

Something that may explain them dropping after around a year. Blue Rams have very short life-spans as far as cichlids go, possibly only lasting for a year or 2. That may explain why you lose them after 8 months to a year. The pet store does not sell them the minute they hatch (obviously) and they take a few months to mature. They are a very short-lived fish. What you may have experienced was just natural death, not a parasitic infection. Or perhaps they just become vulnerable around old age.

I think they are a great fish, and even though people think they are high maintenance, IME they can fluorish with average ammount of care. I am the average aquarist as far as maintenance and water changes. I only do 1 a week and don't create special environmetns for the fish (lowering/raising pH, hardness, etc...) and my Rams have bred twice since I acquired them. It just leads ME to beleive that they are not the delicate fish people make them out to be.

Also, we have both had problems with Cardinal Tetras, but does that mean we won't ever recommend them again? Nope. But I understand why you would advise against the Blue Rams. Since you have not had a great experience with them, you hope to alert others to the possibility of them dieing out early. But, that might not always happen, I just don't think it is fair to tell someone not to get them. Just alerting them of the possibilities so they can make the decision on there own (well...they make the decision on there own anyway, but I hope you get what I'm sayin) is fine.

Anyway, I'm not trying to cause a dispute so I guess we will just ahve to stick to our own experiences/beleifs.

Tetrafan,
It's all about giving your opinion, there is no dispute with that, But I take issue in you telling me it's unfair to tell someone not to get blue rams, especially in a new tank. I think if you asked 100 experienced aquarist if they should put blue rams in a new tank (which you stated that you did and I know Chaos is starting a new tank), almost all would say no. It would be "unfair" not to tell Chaos this. The blue rams I purchased were not full size, so they couldn't have been that old. Them dying at 8 months is like a human dying of natural causes at 35.





Last edited by tetratech at 14-Jan-2006 11:04

My Scapes

I wasn't telling them to add the fish to a fresh tank. I just said I did with no problems. In fact I mentioned not to do that with the Blue Rams.

Maybe I just took your statement the wrong way. I took it as "don't ever get Blue Rams" which I thought was "unfair" but...well it isn't really what you said at all, and I'm sorry for assuming that.

Oh, and about the 8 month thing...maybe some are just not as hardy as others? Wild caught seem to do worse than locally bred, am I right?

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I should choose my words more wisely.

Tetrafan,

No problem, it's easy to misunderstand things in this format. Like I said the different experiences and opinions are what makes this site interesting. Just so you know, I would never speak the way I did about something unless I had personal experience in the area. I also know that there is alot of discussion about internal parasites and blue rams leading to their demise. There is always exceptions to everthing, not many things are black and white. I'm just going with my personal experience and those of many others concerning blue rams. I hope your's are the exception to the rule.





My Scapes

I wouldn't say never get them but I will tell people they are somewhat sensitive and would be best to add them later in the tank setup. They also fair better in a planted tank that isn't in a high traffic area. I believe I lost mine in the past due to the amount of people walking by and the surround sound system in the next room(no wall between those 2 rooms). No they aren't as sensitive as something like discus but they do deserve a slight warning and a bit of care. Then again to go against all my advice I moved my male to an uncycled 10g I set up 2days before with only a little bit of old filter media to seed it. There was a tiny bit of ammonia and nitrite over the next week at barely testable levels and the ram is fine. I'm headed out today to find him a new mate because she got killed by a young opaline gourami before I got them their own tank. Viscious little opaline she was only 1/4th grown and barely bigger than the ram but she smashed into it's side a few times and killed it.

Thanks for all the info. Ive got to say the colors are tempting but instead of being a showcase type fish they would end up being the only fish in my aquarium so that wouldnt be good. You all were right about the baloon rams and they do look wierd (in the same tank as the normal german rams they just look like they had been in a front end colission.

Cheers, Chaos

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