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All things considered, bolivians should be a more hardwater adapted breed, seeing as how the waters just short of the guapore are uncharacterisitcally high in TDSs during much of the year. Also, the toted fragility of blue rams is unfounded in regards to poor water conditions--in fact, unlike its bolivan cousins, which are found in consistently flowing water, the llanos dwelling blues are bombarded by a heavy and hot dry season that reduces much of the floodplans to small charcos, or pools, in which nitragenous toxins can go through the roof (one could argue then, based just on this evidence, that blues should be more apt to be able to stand high levels of nitrate in the home aquaria)--this is how blues are often caught, and because they are already in relatively poor condition, they arrive at the store sickly and ready to drop, and are henceforth given the reputation of being delicate. In fact, this is untrue and any longtime ram keep knows that once a fish is settled in, it becomes as tough as a bullet.

You guys just love messin' with me, don't ya?

I could prolly make some serious $$$ breeding my rams, but I kind of like just knowing that I am a successful fishkeeper who's fish are so happy that they are spawning in less than "ideal" water. My fish just MUST be happy & healthy, otherwise....would they be having babies??? Prolly not.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

I agree crazyred.

But if you are going to keep saving the fry, you better sell them ............ or get more tanks.

Patty, I got my rams on friday and I love them. They are not Gold Rams though I got Blues!!!!!

Anyway I agree with what most people have been saying n this thread....dont get them from a LFS unless you know they are not from a local hobbyist.

The ones that come from the far east are juiced with hormones to make them color up and they just dont last. The poor things. I dotn understand why they cant wait until they are older to get there color in they are still beautiful.

Mine were from my LFS but it is a great one and I know the guy who supplies them with the rams.

The ones that come from the far east are juiced with hormones to make them color up and they just dont last

You also won't find any females. That was one of my biggest problems. The hormones cause all the fish to be male and usually infertile as well. Making it impossible to breed your own. I ran around to every store asking where they got their rams and some could only say from a dealer in one of the larger cities nearby. They didn't know exactly where the rams came from or how they were raised.

Fish,

Thanks for cluing me in on this thread. Angelfish aren't my thing so I would have missed a very good Ram discussion. A Mod should change the subject!

Anyway My Ram story wasn't as successful as some here. I bought mine from the LFS. They were Florida raised which is better than the Asian breeders but still farmed fish. They were beautiful German Blues. The male looked healthy and had great color. The female had the nicest pink belly of the whole lot.

Everything was fine for about a week and I even got a spawn. However the male began getting Head and Lateral Line disease and died during the second week. The female lasted a lot longer, but about a month in got the same disease and died a couple weeks later.

Unfortunately I think I may have contributed to there demise as I was misdosing the EI method for my plants and had about 80ppm Nitrates in the tank.

I may try again now that the nitrates are around 15ppm. Knowing Crazyred is having so much success in South Texas is reassuring. In fact Crazy if you are willing to sell some of your fish I may try to go down there and pick some up. You are what 3 hours south of Houston?


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

slick- There is so much info. on this site. if you can just find it. I often find things in the oddest places. For example in your plant/tank log, you discuss your new rams.

But you're right........... this is not only a good ram discussion, but a good discussion about hard water. If a mod wanted to change this title to something like, "Angels/Rams in hard water", I think that would be a good idea, as a lot of people would like to read about it.

I'm not sure I want rams right now, but I'm definitely going to remember crazyred & maybe consider her as a good source if she ever decides to ship her fish.

In fact Crazy if you are willing to sell some of your fish I may try to go down there and pick some up. You are what 3 hours south of Houston?

Well, more like 5-6 hours south, but I could meet you half way (Corpus Christi). I'm def. planning on selling my babies and I think I devised a plan for saving more eggs without starting a new tank.

I'm sure these guys would do great in Houston water....if they can survive and breed in Rio Grande Valley (River) water, as crummy as it is, they would do well just about anywhere.

I'm willing to ship too, fishpatty. I have in-laws in Oklahoma and am familiar with the state.....where you at? The City, Tulsa or what?

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

I'm about 2 hrs. from Tulsa. I will PM you.


Yeah! I remember you have in-laws here!





Sorry

Yep, my ex's mom & dad live about 15 miles south of Shawnee out in the sticks.

He has aunts, ucncles, & cousins all over the state. I've lived in Weatherford and Prague, and I've worked in Shawnee, Stroud, & Oklahoma City. I went to school in Weatherford, Ada, & Stillwater (yep, OSU). I know all about Oklahoma. LOL

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

I think I devised a plan for saving more eggs without starting a new tank.

Interesting. Would you care to describe that? I might could use your idea some day.

Well, I was thinking about it the other day and my plan is actually to use the net breeder that I used for my platy babies. I put the eggs inside there on whatever surface the rams use and that way they would not be accessable to the fry that are already in there. I really think it would work and I'm going to try it next time.

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

It might just work.

And if you needed extra separation after that, like more room for them after the breeder net, maybe a divider? I know nothing about dividers though. I just saw one on Edith's pics of her angels. It might gap too much for smaller fry?

Anyway................ good luck with that!