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hi gentle fish folk,

thinking of getting a group of 3-5 altum angels for my 6 foot tank. would like to hear any info you may have on them. have read up on this site and others.

i'm looking at having the 3-5 altums, 30 or so black phantom tetras, 9 julii corys and my three sturisoma panamense...any probs here?

i'm most worried about my plants - are the altums fond of picking at vegetation? it's a pretty heavily planted tank, amazon swords and green and red tiger lotus.

thanks,

justin

here is a site about them/ http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1178


just click after them/

Last edited by bettachris at 12-Nov-2005 18:38

All altum angelfish are wild-caught.

I'm not the one you want to ask for information on these guys, but I am fairly sure that they will not destroy live plants. The angels may pick at them or something on them from time to time, but I don't think that plants will be damaged.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

I also think that the Altum Angels will leave the plants alone.




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These guys are very difficult to keep, as said before they're almost all wild-caught and are often heavily parasitized. The most important thing is to start out with well started ones. They're on the same lines as discus as far as water conditions and care.

Altums treat plants just as scalare do - for the most part, they leave them alone.

I would go with the largest group you think the tank can accomodate, as numbers are said to dillute aggression. If your six foot tank holds 180 gallons I'd go with at least a dozen.

I would not mix them with scalare, even if you know the scalare to be clean and disease free. I've done this and found temperment differences meant they did not cohabit as well as I'd anticipated.

I highly recommend buying from an experienced altum keeper or dealer who has landed them and cleaned them up properly, both inside and out. Once thusly acclimated, they are great fish.

Even so, I would advise QT before adding to the big tank. I did at least two months QT.

"Keep them like discus" is pretty good advice - treat them like royalty. They want tip top water quality and are said to do best in a warm tank. (Mine runs at 84F.)

If you purchase recently imported unconditioned fish, (transhipped or essentially so) and do not experience massive losses, that result would defy the odds. IMO, its money well spent to purchase properly cleaned up and acclimated fish.

Just re=read your post re tankmates - I'm not positive about pairing altums up with black phantoms as they might prove a little small (bite size?). I think the phantoms prefer cooler water than the altums. I've never kept phantoms though, so could be wrong here.

I do recall recently seeing a picture of an altum with an oto stuck in its mouth - I would not mix these fish.

I fear Julies may not be an inspired choice either, as most references suggest cooler water. (I choose C. sterbai as they are one of the few cories that are reported to tolerate warmer water.)

The sturisoma, I think should be fine.

Virtually all altums are wildcaught. There are a very limited number of tank bred altums available. Gwynnbrook Farms has f4's bred by Horst Linke. See:
http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/showcase/peter2/

Its possible Gwynnbrook Farms have sold out all their F4 stock as they seem to have removed or disabled their altum page. Too bad as I seem to recall they had some lovely photos there.

I have seen Linke F2 altums in person. They were great looking fish, nice and beefy looking and displayed the broken bar pattern seen on the F4s but not as prominently.

I've heard certain precautions similar to yours regarding altum and scalare mixes.

However, on the off chance that I have seen large altums come in (which go for 85ish bucks a piece--we never order smaller specimens any more as they usually arrive in with nasty infections), they seem fairly even tempered with the scalare in related tanks, and we do house the two together. In fact, scalare seem to exhibit more interspecific aggression than altum do.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 21-Dec-2005 10:33

Yes Cup, my scalare were agressive towards each other and towards the altums, apparently showing little or no differentiation in attitude or approach to the two species.

In marked contrast, the altums virtually never showed agression to the scalare, only to other altums. It was the scalare that were by and large, far more aggressive than the altums.

Interestingly, the altums usually only showed aggressive or posturing behaviour in the evenings - whereas the scalare were "chippy" any time of the day and this seemed to be a constant, not a factor of scalare spawning rhythm...

I had actually hoped that the spawning activity of the scalare might inspire the altums... but the closest I ever saw was to have one altum try to "horn in on" the action of a well bonded pair by entering their zone and clearly posturing towards the female scalare, only to be evicted by the male. I witnessed this scene played out many, many times. Eventually, the altum quit trying to impress the female and rejoined the rest of the altum group at the other end of the tank.

Over a period of months, I gradually reduced the scalare. After I sold the last of the scalare, a beautiful pair I had cherished, the tank instantly became far more tranquil.

So, to clarify, I am not saying altum and scalare can't be maintained together, but rather that I think its preferable if altum are kept with more altums, provided a lare wnough group is possible. Altum can be kept with scalare or with discus, but ideally, I would keep altum in a species group, without scalare or discus.

I understand economics may dictate otherwise. Infact, my initial purchase was for four altum, which was the most I could rationalize due to cost and potential risk of loss. I had hoped housing them with my house bred scalare would round out the group dynamics enough to reduce or dillute potential aggression between individuals... I was most fortunate to be able to expand my group of altum about a year later with the addition of six youngsters and I hope this group of ten will be large enough to minimize any future serious agression.

I do keep other species with my altums, but they do not share the same niche, all the others I keep are bottom oriented, though rummynose or other larger non nippy tetra species would also be acceptable companion fish.

I've researched Altums, basically, they are your WC angelfish, just harder to keep, larger, and next to impossible to breed in captivity.. I've heard it's been done about 5 times so far. That may or may not be incorrect, being hearsay. Also know a couple people that keep these awesome fish.

As per their cousins, scalare, and discus, they're perfectly fine in a planted tank, and would PREFER a planted tank... As natural a setting as possible is desired.

You may find them to be finicky eaters, try frozen brine shrimp, failing that, they might like mysis shrimp (awesome for finicky eaters including some marine species).. Hikari offers both.

For the parasites (same as wc discus) a treatment of Metronidazole would be the most effective remedy, soaking their food in it being the best way to offer it, you could also treat your tankwater but feeding better. This is a 'safer' med which does not adversely affect the filter bed.

The tankmates sound just fine, expect the Altums to pick on their tankmates sometimes.

Good Luck with them !

Last edited by DaFishMan at 28-Dec-2005 22:52

The Amazon Nut...

thanks for all the info, folks...after weighing up the cost factor ($140 per fish here in oz!) i decided to cheat and go with a school of wild-coloured scalare - almost as gorgeous, and at $3 each, a total bargain, and leaving me enough money to increase the black phantom school!

maybe when i win the lotto i'll go with altums - have kept discus for years, so not afraid of the conditions they need - but until the price comes down they'll remain on the wish-list!