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I only keep CA/SA cichlids and have only heard of Africans as feeders .

P.S. this is simply a joke for all you African keepers...

should work out fine, cichlids arnt as complicated as some think. wish you the best of luck getting the result your hopeing for keep us posted !

thanks muchos Acei & Just Beginning. I have printed out your advice and had a look at the site Acei recommended.

It has recommended setup lists. I will go and take a look armed with the list.

I am going to look for some pics of the species and see if it is what I had in mind.

I know it isn't a simple set up but I have been doing a bit of this and that for 5 years so I would like to give it a go. If it doesn't work out I will at least know it isn't for me.

Thanks for all the advice friends.






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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

i keep malawi and tangs and have to say research, research, & keep researching. i have been keeping them for over a year and i learned hard and fast. the secret to keeping mbuna is setting the tank up for the one type of fish you want. there are hundreds of different kind of mbuna. pick one. i picked acei after keeping them for a while and found them to be very active, not too aggressive and full of personality. they shoal, so they move around in a loose school, but still venture on their own. i have a 55g 4 footer tnak also. i got 6 acei to be the main group. i put one yellow lab, one demasoni and one red zebra. the tank is awesome. everybody who sees it says wow and i can watch them for hours. i highly recommend this exact setup as it is very colorfull and easy to take care of. you wont need a lot of rocks either. the acei only use them at night for sleeping. definitely get sand. i use aragonit sugar sand because it is very fine and buffers the water. you will not have to add anything to your water to keep the ph right at 8.0. keep about an inch or 1.5" in there. get a couplelarge rocks and some smaller rocks to make caves with. again, dont go overboard with the rocks. these fish like the swimming area. keep whatever lights you want. the fish dont care. i find that they dont like it super bright though. i use colormax bulbs that show off the fish colors really well. also, these fish will produce quite a bioload on their own and i dont recommend any algae eaters or catfish as they will just add to the waste. i had some petricola in with mine for a while and they hid all day and found tehm not worthwile in there. the acei will clean the glass better than a pleco. i have a very thin layer of algae o the rocks, but it never gets a chance to grow because the fish eat it.
i really dont believe in overcrowding because you really dont get the real behavior of the fish. in my setup, the acei are the main group and act very normal. the other fish dont really act too normal because they dont have any conspifics, but they seem to get along great and show great colors.
my best advice; find a bunch of fish yo like and read as many articles about them as you can, findo out what they eat, how their temper is and see if they are compatible with your other choices. check out cichlid-forum.com for great species profiles and articles. good luck and i guarantee that with the right information, patience and some luck you will have a great african tank. are they really easy to take care of compared to other fish, no. i wont lie, but that is the rewarding part of it. my tank practically takes care of itself now, but when i was learning, it was tough. it took alot of time and energy to figure it out. you will hear alot of different advice from all diferent sources. whatever they say, remember that species tanks are by far the easiest and most rewarding setups you can have. adding many species to one tank and expecting it to work out is crazy. i just made a modified species tank and found that setup to work great. good luck.

I just want to add my bit in here in support of African cichlids. I have kept an mbuna tank for a few years and it is by far the most satisfying set-up I've ever had. The fish are amazingly beautiful, they are active and show a variety of interesting breeding and territorial behaviours. And while it's true that mbuna can lose their individuality in an overcrowded tank, there will always be one or two who continue to stand out (usually dominant males!). Plus, overcrowding is not an absolute necessity, it is just a possible method for reducing aggression. With some of the more peaceful species, you can understock and leave room for stock changes and a larger margin of error for water quality. I kept 20 mbuna in a 120 gallon for ages with no major aggression problems, and I had a lot of situations arise - filters breaking down, etc. - where I was very glad that I had understocked. Also, if you go with haps or peacocks, you will not be overstocking anyway as it doesn't work for these species (nor is it necessary).

While I've never kept american cichlids (except for some rams), I'm sure that there are a lot of benefits to an African set-up over an American, and vice-versa. But since you've already had the Americans, I don't think you'd be disappointed with the change.

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. - Oscar Wilde

Sorry to be so general but before I go to the lfs and get my heart set on a fish because it looks pretty I want to know what is involved in a changeover.


When I get to an lfs I will look at who's who in the zoo and come back with more specific questions.


As long as the lfs is prepared to switch if the stock isn't compatible. I hate to have fish in the tank that are unhappy. I would rather be out of pocket than have a fish unhappy.


I think I am going to the lfs this weekend so I will do a bit more looking and asking.

thanks for the help.


Nice to hear that there are some people that are big fans of the african cichlids.



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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

Well yes, it is becoming a sensative issue of sorts. And for this person, it is probably better for them to go with the West or East Africans, because their water perameters are very close to those of the SA fishes. And since he has been keeping SAs, then this would be a better choice.

On a side note; I guess I am just blessed that about 50% of the African cichlids sold at the 35 lfs within a 30 min drive from me, are actually West and East Africans, and not rift lake cichlids.

I am just trying to get people the correct info they want, and in doing so, I have to have the proper info from them. Not generalized info. Every time someone states "Africans", everyone jumps on the band wagon talking about the rift lake cichlids. Without knowing what their intentions are, water conditions are, or anything else.

I am just trying to make my point of complete info to you'all. You should always have complete info of the persons wants and needs, as well as availability to meet them. Then give them the info they need to complete their research.

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There is always a bigger fish...

all this posting i forgot all about the original questions lol.
Decor really depends on the water chemistry of your tap and where it needs to be. also depends on what types of fish your wanting. mostly the rift lakes live in sand and rocks, easy aquascapeing to say the least. some enjoy some driftwood to peck algae off like Aceis but remember these guys liek the higher PH and driftwood drops it slightly. smaller the tank the smaller the wood to limit effects. almost all cichlids enjoy digging in sand but this is really personal preference on your end. they will be more then happy to move gravel once they are older if the gravel is small enough to get in thier mouth.
just some ideas, not much i can tell with out knowing exactly where you stand with tap chemistry and what your interested in.

Last edited by Sin in Style at 16-Nov-2004 20:03

No, but 90% of africans sold are from the rift lake. That is kind of a senstive issue with you hey ACID:%). Anyways most people don't tweek their water to perfectly match the native body of water for that fish, so the water concern is not that much of a concern when mixing.

Wish-ga, the real thing you should be asking, and researching, is "what kind of Africans" are you looking at, or asking about, thinking about getting? As Africa has cichlids from all different types of water, as well as all different types of personalities. It just that when ever someone comes on a thread and askes about Africans, right away everyone starts talking about rift lake cichlids. I used to laugh about how non-knowledgeable people were/still are about the African cichlid population. Now I feel for those people that are trying to learn about them.

Some questions; What local of cichlids are you looking to learn about, or possibly change your tank over to? West Africans, East Africans, or Rift Lake Cichlids? And if the Rift Lake Cichlids, then which lake? Tanganyika, Malawi, or Lake Victoria? All these areas have cichlids of different water qualities, personalities, colors, ect ect ect. I can never emphasize enough to people, NOT ALL AFRICAN CICHLIDS ARE RIFT LAKE CICHLIDS!

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There is always a bigger fish...

I have an african tank and I love it. The next best thing to a saltwater tank. Lots of color, sizes and personalities to choose from. The only problem is getting a good selection and finding a LFS with lots of choice.
The reason I didn't go with SA is that I did not want one or two boring larger SA fish in my tank. Plus I see a lot of SA full grown cichlid being traded or given to LFS cause of lack of interest when the fish grow to adult.
Two basic types of tank are the colony of one or two species or the community. I have the community setup. The community setup gives the best variety and you said you didn't want a breeding tank. With the community setup be prepared to experinment with different fish and possible return some to the lfs if there are not working your tank. People can give you advice on what fish are good with each other, but that also varies with each tank.
With malawi I would go either mbuna or peacock/hap setup. Tangs are interesting and Lake victoria basins IMO are definitely the best colored africans. Some vic will mix good with the malawis.
The bottom line, do the tank the way you want it. Do a african setup and learn from it. Don't like them, sell the africans they usually have good trade especially adults and do something else then.

I kinda disagree. Ive only kept Mbuna for a year, now switched to peacocks. Maybe I was lucky,but I had maintained a mixed Mbuna tank for a year with no problems and did not overstock. 75% of mine had great personality. I believe the key is to getting them small and growing them together. But luck is also good as all fishes personalitys are different. Sometimes you may have to remove a BRUTE and replace. I ended up with 8 in a 55gal before switching to peacocks in a 120gal. Beautiful fish. Good luck with your choice. Oh PH 8-8.2 and hard H2O is recommended for Africans. Crushed coral and or texas holy rock(limestone) is good for the tank.

Last edited by stallion81 at 16-Nov-2004 19:23

problem with african fish is most arnt community worthy and most poeple liek to have community tanks. I found SA loads easier to deal with when setting up a community.

I have a 4 ft tank with a texas, some rainbow cichlids and some clown loaches. I would like to find a new home for these guys and redo my tank as African cichlids. After 5 yrs experience I feel like a bit of a change and with my stocks so low in this tank I though now was as good as ever.

What would I have to do (once the stock has been relocated of course)

Will I have to completely replace the gravel? Change light bulbs?

Some pointers from people who have gone this road would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

PS I know this may take a while to do a change over and I am patient. Just doing the research at the moment.

Last edited by wish-ga at 14-Nov-2004 19:56

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

I don't want any pairing up and breeding. I had that with SA cichlids and I didn't like it.

I am doing the research at the moment, no decision made yet.

But there isn't a post from anyone saying they have a great tank going and LOVE it. Just a lot of warnings so far. Hmmm, maybe not a good idea or maybe I posted in the wrong thread.

thanks for all the help so far though, much appreciated

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

That's definitely true with not only brichardis but also all the Julie's, N. multifasciatus, N. similis and any of the brichardi-like species like N. pulcher, buescheri.

Eric

NO your right, no offense taken. not sure why i included tangs in that ive only kept mbuna, thats what i was really referring to.

And you right about the brichs. i have heard they are happy with family though so if you stock a pair alone and they breed the new additions are accepted. not sure how true it works but deffinetly a species only tank for them if they pair up.

Last edited by Sin in Style at 16-Nov-2004 09:06

Sin - that probably came across more harshly than I meant it to...I've just known too many people who brought home 8 brichardi for their 40 gallon tank, life was good until two paired up, and next thing you know half the fish are dead, there is a happy pair controlling 98% of the tank, and the remaining unpaired fish are all torn up and in the top corner of the tank.

Most tangs have serious attitudes, make devoted parents that put to shame most american cichlids (not all though), yet they often look so small and cute.

Eric

My mistake thank you for the correction.

Let me re-iterate this point, Tanganyikans, apart from Tropheus, are NOT like Malawians. They should not be overcrowded, they are pair or harem breeders, and they need space like American cichlids do.

Overcrowding Tanganyikans leads to death and carnage...

Eric