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1 No way. 55 or not no convicts with africans. Good responses from all. I think keep the 25 long, but with only 4 Yell Labs(1M-3F) and get rid of the DEMONsi's. They are very aggressive.Plenty of rockwork and good filtration and you will have no problems. Seen it done many times with a standard 30gal witch is same footprint.Realistically you will only have 14-16" of fish ,throw a BN in there and your good to go. But I also believe bigger tanks are better and easier to maintain.Good luck . Africans rock !

they are $5-8 here.

overcrowding is the only way with them. again, 20 fish will be going in the tank, but about 15 or so will be staying. i dont think 15 demasoni in a 55g is too many at all. what you do is when you notice a fish trying to bully and take control, you take him out. chances are it is a male trying to dominate. you keep doing this until you get to about 16 or 17 fish. you let it go a while and if luck is on your side you have more females than males and the tank will settle. there will always be some chasing and fin nipping. quit freaking out about the 20 fish. the 20 will only be staying in there for a while. sheeesh! you dont have to do it this way either. if you dont trust me, get 6 or so and when you only have one left give me a call. shouldnt take long. has anybody ever heard of overstocking an african cichlid tank, only to purposely take out a few later to get to your ideal stocking level? i do it all the time. good breeders do it too. your lfs should take some fish back knowing what you are doing. definitely talk it over so they know you might be bringing some fish back and work out the details. most of the time they will give you a store credit for the ones you take back.

Last edited by acei at 03-Nov-2004 23:26

Uhh..they're 2/$5 here.

Its pretty hard to sex demasoni, good luck trying to get 3-5 males and the rest females. Also most people starting a cichlid tank doesn't want to spend a fortune on 20 demasoni, they are $18+ here each(don't know how much there), and have 5-8 of die. If you were to go with 20, I would suggest AT LEAST 75 gal. Be prepared for some disease along with the deaths as the stressed fish fight.

fish that naturally get large, will not do too well in smaller tanks. this is not 100% true because i hear stories every once in a while where someone got an oscar and grew it up in a 29g tank and it lived for a long time and got large. that is the exception and not the norm.

as for the comment about adding 5 to the tank. i was talking about the danios to cycle the tank, not the demasoni. i would add all demasoni at once. sorry i didnt make myself clear, and thanks for pointing that out.

again, i say start out with 20 demasoni in the 55 because there will be a few deaths and the numbers will naturally thin out. these fish stay small and if provided with enough rocks and hiding spots, it should not be a problem at all. again, they stay pretty small. i have a one year old in my tank and it is barely pushing 3 inches. my yellow lab dwarfs him, and they are the same age. the acei dwarf the yellowlab. size is not so much the case here, it is the aggression level of the fish. they need the numbers to make sure that no one fish gets picked on more than the others. if at all possible, try to get more females than males. again, the higher number of fish in the tank, will allow for some weeding out of a couple extra males and unfortunate aggression victims. you should end up at the end with maybe 3-5 males and the rest females. you should also end up with about 12-15 fish. this is a more realistic number for a 55g tank. but, i'm afraid that if you only stock the tank with 12 from the start, you may end up with only one fish because if a couple fish die and you have to get rid of a couple males, you may end up with a colony that cant survive because it is too small. i hope that clears up any anxiety about the 20 fish in a 55g tank. i have lately wanted a demasoni species tank, but just havent been able to add another tank to the collection. you can bet i will someday though. it has to be spectacular tank. i personally think the demasoni is the most beautiful mbuna.

chances are looking pretty good for the 55 gallon - i found one with light & hood with a stand for $300 Canadian new, which is pretty good over here.

I was curious regarding the fish sizes though. For those who say electric yellows can live in my 25g long, I'm assuming it's because they will neither be stunted in that tank nor show too much aggression?

So, if i had a 55 gallon with demasoni (only demasoni), it would be ok for them in that tank in that they wouldn't get stunted and would be ok aggression wise, because of the bigger swimming space?

Also, someone mentioned that my convicts will get stunted if i leave them in my 20 gallon. Anyone else believe the same? I like them a lot, but if I'm doing more damage than good, I'll try to trade them in for some other fish, or at least for some supplies.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

-Dun(e)

If you want to keep something that looks like Demasoni and yellow labs (kinda), get Pseudotropheus Saulosi. They're not very aggressive. Top out a 3-4". The females range in color from bright yellow to bright orange depending on the stock you get (I have both right now) and the males get the nice blue with dark stripes.

I wouldn't mix Demasoni and labs ever. Could be a real mess. A 55 is definately the way to go if it's a realistic option.

Umm, 20 demasonis are a bit too much in a 55 gallon. In a 75 gallon it'll be more ideal. A 55 gallon wouldnt be enough room for all the females to hide and such, as well as the males staking out territories. And with demasonis, I would not add the demasonis part by part, instead, I would add all at once (if the tank has been properly cycled). Adding 5 in would allow them to stake out territories before the incoming demasonis, which can be very stressful for the new demasonis. Acei is right about keeping the large colony, but a 55 isnt that great with some of the more active and aggressive africans.

Either way, I'd get the 55 gallon. In the future, you can always have more options. A 55 would be good for 8-10 electric yellows.

i say go for the 55g tank. if you can afford it and you have room for it you wont be dissapointed. larger tanks are a bit more stable. you have to realize though that 55g tanks are not large when referring to african cichlids. they are about the smallest that you can keep a couple different species in. if you are really set on the demasoni, get 20 and put them in the 55g. make sure your tank is cycled though. as africans dont do good with poor water quality. the reason you need so many demasoni is that they are pretty aggresive to each other. they will not bother other species hardly at all. they are sort of like tropheus, in that they do best in colonies, not trios like alot of other mbuna & haps. aven with 20, there will be a lot of frayed fins and a possible death here and there. with 20, it gives you a good chance of finding a workable harmony within the group. if you try to add a fish later, it will disrupt the colony and cause a dissaster. if one dies, it may still cause a disruption, but shouldnt be like trying to add one. the crowding is necessary to spread the aggression out between all the fish and not just a few. in the wild, demasoni are spread out and fairly peaceful because they dont interact alot. in a tank it is different. i would try this for a while and see how it goes. if you dont want to spend that kind of money on fish and worry abot the losses, you can definitely try something else. p. soulosi resemble demasoni. the males are blue and black and the females are bright yellow/orange. the 55g would be a great tank for these fish. i would keep it a species tank. you can get a couple males and 6 or 8 females. again make sure the tank is cycled and prepared to take 10 fish if you add 10 fish. i find that giant danios make great tank cyclers. put 5 in the 55g tank to start it up and then add 5 more after about a month. give it a total of 2 months with the 10 danios and you should be able to add the 10 or so soulosi. i hope i have helped you out some. i have a 55g tank with a colony of acei with a demasoni in it for a splash of color. he is very nice to the other fish and has been in there for nearly a year with these fish. i also have a yellow lab and a red zebra in there for extra color. everyone is doing great. good luck and feel free to ask more questions. these fish are great to keep, but they all seem to have their own rules.

My LFS told me that I could put a few electric yellows and demasoni (2 or 3 of each) into a 25 long as long as I have all the hiding places, rock setups, etc.

The owner mentioned that the electric yellows grow to around 3" or a bit more and that the demasoni were approximately the same. Currently, they are around 1 - 1.5 inches and kept in the same tank at his shop (in one half a 66 gallon tank).

I'm fairly new to cichlids (I got a breeding pair of convicts in a 20g, but that's it for my cichlid experience); does the above scenario sound ok?

If not, why?
Thanks in advance.

-Dun(e)

Thanks again for the info folks!

My LFS guy I was talking to has been pretty honest with me before; he did seem hesitant when I said I had a 25 long, which is why I figured I'd get the final word here!

I was wondering, if I get rid of my 20 and 25long and replace with a 50 or 55 (i think there's one on sale @ walmart), then could I

1. put both the demasoni and electric yellows together?

2. add in my 2 convicts as well?

any other colourful suggestions for a 55g if the above scenarios don't work?

-Dun(e)

I'd skip on the demasoni, and get electric yellows. They are probably a better stepping stone for cichlids after the convicts than the demasoni.

Four would work in a 30 gallon (the E.Y).I'd get 1 male : 3 females (making sure that it is a healthy and mature male). After reaching about 3", they'd start mating, which means you'd have to provide lots of caves for the females when breeding.

About the employee thing.
Im a LFS employee. The thing is that, most people will give you their opinion, or a false fact which has been misinterpreted. Not all LFS's are out to make buisness, some people just dont know the real facts. Some members on this forum are LFS employees themselves (or used to). Maybe its just your LFS thats corrupt.

I have kept demasoni before and electric yellow currently and IMO it won't work. The demasoni are just to aggressive for the electric yellows. And a 25-30 is to small for that mix. Also very small juvenile demasoni are not hardy fish. I have lost small juv in my tank and my friend has lost small juv demasoni in his cichlid community tanks as well. Probably best to kept them in a colony. I would recommend demasoni as more intermediate fish and not a beginning fish to start with for keeping cichlids.

P. demasoni are very aggressive despite their smaller size ( < 3" ) and probably shouldn't be kept in less than a 55G US. They need territory, unless you want dead fish on your hands.

Electric Yellows, L. caeruleus, will attain sizes between 3"-5", depending on gender and a few other factors.

The fact is, a 25G would be too small for either of these species. Even the more mild-tempered Electric Yellow requires room for territories and hiding, as I've seen times where my alpha male has become very aggressive during spawning periods.
Bare minimum for 3-4 adult Electric Yellows would be around 30G. Larger tanks are more ideal, of course.

Last edited by AndyCLS at 29-Oct-2004 13:52

I agree, there ARE good lfs employees around, you just have to be careful who you trust. Doing your own homework will give you a good idea of who knows what and how much to trust.

"Do not trust any fish store employee"

NOT TRUE.

i was once a pet store employee myself, and i know many pet store employees who actually CARE about the health of the pet rather than making a sale.

my advice to the original poster is to find a reputable pet store and to do research on their own before making any kind of purchase.

Electric yellows grow to 5 inches and are to big for a 20 gallon tank and Demasoni are very aggressive towards each other and often when kept in groups of less then 6-10 the dominant Demasoni will pick one the weak one until he dies and then moves on to the next until he is the only Demasoni left. A twenty gallon tank is just 2 small for any cichlid from the Mbuna family which those 2 are. You could look into fish from Lake Tanganyika like Neolamprologous brichardi or any of the shell dweller species.

BTW always remember the first rule of fish keeping "Do not trust any fisch store employee" after all they need to sell fish in order to stay open.

I can't speak for the africans, as I've never raised any before. However, I know for a fact that two convict will NOT be able to live in a 20 gallon for over a year w/o stunting.