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My lfs has some of the cutest baby rams i have ever seen, in fact, i decided that one of the babies i saw in there was THE cutest fish i had EVER seen! he was maybe 3/4" at most and had lots of additutude and was already pretty colorful with one funny black spot above his eye. according to this site though, http://apisto.bravepages.com/Ram%20article.htm]http://apisto.bravepages.com/Ram%20article.htm[/link][link=http://null
colorful juveniles might be a bad thing. Any support in that?

Anyway, the water here is actually pretty hard, so i'm not sure if i could even keep this guy. Seems like most of the stuff i've read on them is that they are very sensitive to chemicals and water conditions. Should i just give up on this guy?

i can't afford to keep up with water softening chemicals or anything because i'm going to be very busy with school and work very soon.

The pottery that growls!

Wile yes it is true that allot of Asian breeders use hormones on their fish. Not all of them do.
I myself have not hade any problems with the colorful blue ram juvies.
They are sensitive to water quality, but as long as make sure you do a 20% weekly water change you should be fine.
I have never tried to keep them in hard water, so I don't know if they can take it. My water is pretty hard also. Since I keep only SA fish I opted to do something about my water from the get go. [link=HERE]http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4484&N=2004+22789" style="COLOR: #00C000[/link] is a link to the product I use. It is allot cheaper that buying distilled water every week or installing an RO unit. This thing really does work... It lowers your PH to around 5.0 and comes with trace elements to raise the PH and add the minerals that fish need back to the water.

HTH

ive heard german rams will do fine in the upper &s and even low 8s as far as PH is concerned. the problem is KH. if the KH is over 4º or something the fry wont be able to live through it. it hardens the egg shells to fast so they dont get fertilised. those that do happen to live are usually diformed in some way.
as far as colorfull juvies i would hesitate on these. hormone fed juvies can be stunted and weakened. also when you buy such fish it helps these hormone feeding companies to continue doing it.
case in point i bought a few yellow lab cichlids form my local petco, stupid i know but these things were the best yellows ive seen. i shoulda known better. they are currently still very small months later. they are also showing dark patches from over breeding and bad batches. this is all coverd up by hormones.
do yourself a favor and stick with the old saying, if its to good to be true it prolly isnt.if they are obviously way to colorful for juvies stear clear it isnt worth it i promise.

Sin

Thanks for the quick replies guys! I'll have to be more careful of such pretty babies. I don't know what to do with my 10g since my cutey crab left ={ i'm new to san francisco, so i'm not sure what good shops are around here or what fish are easy to find! hopefully i can find some fishies that aren't stuffed full of hormones ={

The pottery that growls!

stay away from chain stores, i think they all shop from the same puddle. the mom and pop shops or the off the wall place are the people like us. they start out with 1 tank, then 5, and well now they need an excuse to get thier spose to agree to more tanks so they setup shop lol. ask them questions you know the answer to and ask thier view on questions without a real right or wrong answer. this lets you know if they are there for a buck or because they are there to have a chance at more fish heheh. if you ask about oscar and if you can keep it in a 30g and they say sure lol well there is a problem. then you mention how you heard they only grow to the size of the tank and they dont disagree with the thought then its time to say have a good day lol.
anyway if you can find a place that seems to your likeing then chances are they know who they are ordering from. just ask them if they get thier fish from a farm or a breeder. the farms are what you wanna worry about especielly the fish from taiwan. i hear alot fo cichlids from their are hormone fed.
ok long post sorry. hope this helps heheh.

Wile yes Sin n I are only trying to help. I still say I have not had a problem with young colorful rams. I do agree that hormones are bad for the fish and do shorten their lives.

My point is that I'm not 100% sure that the rams are stuffed with hormones, they are a very colorful fish to begin with. If anyone (you too sin) can say otherwise please do.

If you want 100% untreated fish, then forget your LFS. Go to [link=aquabid.com]http://www.aquabid.com" style="COLOR: #00C000[/link] and find rams for sale. Then ask the seller where he/she got them from. Alot of USA breeders sell their fish there.

If you have any concerns about shipping fish, then PM me n I will fill you in all about it. It is really no big deal!
HTH

alot of time the chains dont even know it. they buy from dealer who gets them from another dealer who got them from a farm who hormone fed. what i said above isnt FACT in every case and it is very hard to find out the birth place of a fish. even harder to find out for a fact what he was fed before it arrived to the shop.
i guess i got real lucky with my local shop. He has a breeding facility on the top floor and those he doesnt breed he gets shipped from a breeder who uses F1 fish. how true is this you ask, i havent a clue you just kinda have to trust your shop.