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I"m trying to get my pH higher. Are "crushed corals" available at LFS? And are they pre-crushed or will the corals need to be manually crushed?

Interesting. Well, good thing the males don't live in the shells, it shouldn't affect the shell purchase!

-Molly
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Boulenger discribes them at 6 inches. But have seen several pics brought back from Lake Tang with them much larger. Next time I am over at his house, I will try to get a pic.

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There is always a bigger fish...

I've read that article and a couple of others, but the largest I've ever heard of callipterus reaching is about 4" (Fishbase and Cichlid-forum among others), although I'd certainly believe 6". I'd be very interested to see pictures of his fish, that's quite impressive!

Last edited by LittleMousling at 11-Nov-2004 16:38

-Molly
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Try the L callipterus. The female stays a couple of inches long, while the male is extremely larger. The female is a wholy shell dweller. The male has a harem of several to many females, within a large pile of shells. These are very interesting fish. I have a friend that has bred them, and his male is over a foot long. He brought them back from his trip to the lake, several years ago just as fry. Boulenger first discribed this fish in 1906. And since then, no one else has rediscribed them. This is the only one I know of with such a huge sexual dimorphism. He has some nice underwater video of these guys in action. The males will literally steal females away from each other, buy stealing the shells from each others "treasure" pile. The males build huge nests of piles snail shells to impress females to join their harem. And while stealing shells from another males pile, they will many times steal a female that is hidden within. Here is a link to these cool fish.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/l_callipterus.php

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There is always a bigger fish...

A foot? The biggest true shelldweller I know of is Calliurus, and those males top out at somewhere around 4". And the shelldwelling compressiceps stay much smaller than the other comp varieties. I'm sure there are fish of which the juveniles may use shells that then outgrow them but I'm not sure I'd call those shelldwellers, just opportunistic.

-Molly
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Actually, some of the males of the shell dwellers, actually get over a foot long! But the females rarely exceed a couple of inches. Many of the males do not need the shells to go into, only the females. Like the A. compressiceps. The males rarely go in the shells, but the females rarely leave the close area of their shells.

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There is always a bigger fish...

I'd use those shells. You can always keep an eye out for larger ones - I used craft shells until I got my escargot ones.
Crushed coral is sold crushed - it's a substrate, not as common IME as it used to be but still pretty easy to find. It's off-white, very natural looking, a bit coarse. I used to use it for my mollies (didn't know then about it raising the pH but I'm sure they appreciated it - good thing I preferred livebearers then!).
At 7.6-7.8 you really don't need cichlid salts IMO unless you're keeping wild-caught, and maybe not then - crushed coral or something along those lines (crushed shell, etc) will do the job quite well.
OTOH, a higher pH and GH definitely do seem to help with breeding IME - my similis are as reliable as any test kit about this. Under 7.4 - no fry. 7.6-7.8 - small broods. 7.8+ and a higher gh - 10+ fry. Sounds insane but so far they've been extremely accurate. I have to use salts to keep the pH and GH up at school - they were living in the almost-neutral water but not thriving, and although chemicals aren't my favorite solution, coral wasn't working. They definitely, definitely prefer the hard, basic water, chemicals or no. Um, that seems to contradict my "you don't need cichlid salts" doesn't it? But you don't. My water at home is about the same as yours and they did very well in it, and raised fry - just not quite as many. And my male is WC so it's not necessarily fair to make that correlation for tank-raised fish.
Basically, don't put peat or driftwood in and you'll be fine.


Multis, similis, or brevis - they all have great points. Brevis can be stunning, particularly older males with their trailing fin extensions, and they come in a number of varieties and "looks." They maintain quite small territories, but are less likely to tolerate fry once a new brood has arrived. Fairly easy to sex (more or less) reliably.
Multis are wonderful, and adorable. They're happy to live in groups and even happier to stuff your aquarium and make their own group! They love a deep shellbed or at least a nice selection of shells. And those blue eyes aren't to be missed! Also, IME, faster growers and easier to sex at a young age than some.
Similis are my personal favorite, and I'm not alone in that - they've got attitude, but not enough to be irritating, always tearing each other to shreds. Best kept in pairs, but they may in many cases begin to raise their own colony, and are more tolerant of their young than brevis, although less so than multis. Gorgeous, although it takes a loving eye to see most of their color. And the males develop an adorable little nuchal hump.
Phew! Sorry for the length.

-Molly
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hmmm well the ones i got werent labled but they are about 1 1/2" wide max so should i get some bigger ones?

i want to get sumthin like multis similis or brevis in my 2foot. what do you guys recommend?

i duno about my gh or kh but my ph is about 7.6 7.8. so m assuming hardness is high-ish aswell.

do i need to get cichlid salts aswell?

hi, i found some escargot shells online and all it says is that they are width: 1.5inches. is this big enough for shell dwellars?

how big should the shells be? thanks!

I mean "extra-large" - that's the size they're sold as. They're about 2" wide, some slightly larger, with a big round mouth.
The fish definitely go all the way in, and the nice thing about the size and shape of the escargot shells is that once in, they can turn around, rather than backing out. They seem to clearly prefer this.
I use sand. What are your GH, KH, and pH now? Crushed coral in the filter is nearly as effective as using a whole substrate of it. There is crushed coral sand but it's not IME easy to get ahold of. Using gravel means you miss out on half the fun of the shellie behaviors! Just put some crushed coral in the filter and, if you have really soft water, maybe use a commercial (or homemade) cichlid buffer.

-Molly
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hi LM!

i was wondering if ud appear in this thread! had a look at ur webpage which definately fueled my desire for shellies!

when u say extra large, how big is that? (inches) so the fish like going all the way in?

also do you use a sand or crushed coral substrate? i know they prefer sand coz they dig but i need sumthin to keep the ph and hardness up. is crushed coral ok? or is it too sharp? is coral enough to get my ph above 8?

A number of shellie species pass 3", or at least the males do.

Personally, I've always found that my shellies prefer larger shells - almost every fish, of six species, has preferred extra-large escargot shells to small-medium craft stores shells, apple snail shells, etc.

-Molly
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i thought all shellies were pretty small. 1-2 inches. do they like to fit all the way into the shell?

Usually it depends on the shelldweller. If you have a small species, the shells would probably work.

thanks liam, was just a bit worried because i read on the shell dwellar article on this site that they need
"at least 1 inch entrance, and goes at least 2inches back"

seeing as u live locally what kinda shells do u use and where do u get them from?

That should be fine.
I have some multis at the moment and they seem to like the smaller shells in preference to the bigger ones.
As long as they can squeeze into the shell (and get back out) they will be ok.