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I always wonder about this sort of thing:

Would a 10g tank be a decent living space for shellies? And I don't just mean, can they 'live' in that space. I hear a lot of people say that a 10g is OK for a breeding pair of rams or apistos, but it's not really a good long term size in that you cant establish a harem in there etc. In other words, it's a fine size to breed them in, but it's not the best long term size.

Does the same hold true for shellies like brevis' etc.? I'd imagine you can breed them there, but is it a good size tank in terms of being able to bring out the fishes natural behaviors? Or is it only acceptable to breed 2 of them there, that sort of thing...?

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Back in the saddle!

Here's why I think a 10 makes a great (not just adequate) home for a number of shellie species: they're not really that active. Don't get me wrong, they move, but on the Zebra Danio scale they're like rocks. They hover above the shell and guard, they hover in the shell and watch, they hover at the front glass waiting for food.
When they are very active, it's usually a localized activity - digging and rearranging, for example. They can dig dig dig with surprising speed and power (um, kinda destroys my rock simile, soesn't it? I guess digging is when they're lava), but it's in an area - they're not racing about the tank picking up sand from every corner, they're staying in their territories. And many of the territories are tiny - I gave a pair of Brevis to a friend for her 6 gallon eclipse and she's reported that, just as I observed, the fish never go near the righthand 2" of the tank - presumably because their territory doesn't extend that far. And they're the only fish in there, other than almost two dozen month-old fry.
So, as I see it, shellies are better suited to a 10 gal than are the more common choices, like very active schoolers, because they just don't need the space. I won't lie that they don't use it when it's available - I have a couple of brevis in my 125 that use about half the 6' tank - but it's pretty clear to me that it's not detrimental to the smaller species to keep them in smaller tanks.

That said, I doubt you could possibly regret keeping, say, a colony of multis in a 55. If you have the space, go for it! - but don't feel like you're shortchanging them if you don't. Pick a species with small territories and keep a pair, they'll love it.

-Molly
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thanks for the reply. a while back i was trying to make plans to start up a ten gallon tank with a pair of apistos or rams. then i had a big cyno outbreak on my 46 gallon, then had to remove my tiger barb school, now im replanting the big one and restocking with h. rasboras - so that all was taking my attention away from the ten. now my attention has started coming back to it, so im thinking about it again.

now that i'm thinking about it, apistos might be on the aggressive side - towards eachother - to have a pair long term in there, which brought my thoughts over to shellies. they seem like such an interesting fish. how would i go about getting a pair of them - any online breeders? and what about tank set-up? substrate and increasing water hardness and pH, etc.?

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Back in the saddle!

Online breeders are the safest bet to acquire them but you might be able to find some locally if you have a local aquarium club or good fish store.

Yes, IME, Apistos can be very nasty to each other - shellies spaw every once and a while (mine probably a bit more than most, since the camera flash seems to get them going ), but are basically quite peaceful. And they are definitely, definitely, definitely fascinating.

Tank setup: basically the normal setup (tank, water, heater, filter, background, thermometer, yada yada) but with a sand substrate if at all possible (keeping shellies without sand is like having a small dog and never taking it for a walk - the dog can probably get most of its exercise running around the house and yard but where's the fun on either side?) and shells - escargot shells are my personal favorite but other options include craft-store and pet-store (hermit crab) turbo shells, apple snail shells, and even PVC elbows with caps on one end.

Good sources: [link=http://www.aquabid.com]http://www.aquabid.com" style="COLOR: #4040FF[/link], [link=http://www.neptuneaquatics.com]http://www.neptuneaquatics.com" style="COLOR: #4040FF[/link], a million others. Aquabid;s a good place to find online stores that carry shellies.

Best way to increase hardness is a bag of crushed coral in the filter. If your water's quite acidic and that won't do the trick sufficiently, then you can look at cichlid salts (I have to use them at college, unfortunately), but ideally you wouldn't have to.

-Molly
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very interesting...

thanks for the info! i;ll definetely keep doing my reearch just one final question: which species would you reccommend for a beginner's shellie? and what ratio, 1m 1f, or 1m 2f?

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Back in the saddle!

With most tanganyikans, it's impossible to sex them except for size, and shellies are no exception. If you get 4-6, you'll get a pair or more. The following are the normal breeding set-ups.

N. brevis - pair breeders that share the same shell - so something larger than a escargot shell is ofter preferred (visit your local craft store for slightly larger shells).

N. ocellatus - harem breeders.

N. multifasciatus or similis - pair breeders but form colonies and often get along fine with multiple males and female pairs in the same tank.

Eric

Great, informative thread...very tempting too, I guess I'll put shellies on my fish-wish-list

edit: would a 10g be the minimum recommended tank size for shellies or could something smaller work as well?

Last edited by Theresa_M at 27-Oct-2004 01:01

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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

10 would work fine with a pair of brevis. I started with 4, but after a pair formed moved out the unpaired two.

Multis or similis would also work in a 10 - again starting with 4, but they should be fine forever.

I've not kept the harem breeding shellies myself like ocellatus, but from what I've read they do best in a 15 long or a 20 long...although I could be convinced otherwise. :-)

Eric

Theresa - something a bit smaller can work in certain cases. I have absolutely no problem recommending a known pair of brevis for a 5 gallon tank because of my experiences with them. Similarly, I have a pair of similis in a 7 so I could hardly argue against pairs of similis and multis in somewhat smaller tanks (not that I'm never a fishy hypocrite ).
I'm with E that sexing shellies is tough, but brevis are a lot easier than most - the tail stripes are surprisingly reliable. Biggish fish with well-defined stripes - male. Smaller fish with faded or no stripes - female. Every once in a while it doesn't work but within a single brood it should be quite accurate.

-Molly
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ive been looking into shellies and they sound fun to watch. i was wonder can these be other species of shellies? if so what species could be together?

sorry, another follow-up q.

how are they about pairing off... in other words, if i ordered from neptuneaquatics.com 1 male multi and 2 females, what is the likelihood that they would get along? and what about for brevis'(1m, 1f)? is it hit and miss?

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Back in the saddle!

Neptune may not have sexable adults, but IME a picked pair, for shellies, is almost as good as a pair that picked each other. I wouldn't worry too much about fighting and so on, although females may harass each other a bit (much less so with peaceful multis).

Sin - generally it's not a good idea to mix shellies. I've done it, but only with juvies, and even then it didn't work out terribly well. There are a couple of exceptions (like mixing a pair of Caudos, who are primarily rockdwelling but traditionally classified as shellies) with, say, brevis in a 20-gal long or larger tank, but on the whole it's best to keep on species - besides, I'd rather have a big group of multis in a tank raising each others' young and squabbling like family than pairs of two or three species that would duke it out all the time.

-Molly
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Tank size-wise, I wouldn't recommend less than a 10g for a trio of Similis - they are slightly larger and slightly more active (across space-wise) than Multies. Ocellatus are fiesty ones who need much more than 10g to live near one another - even as pairs! I guess a pair of Brevis could live in a 5g alone, although mine have always been kept with company so I have always seen the male make active use of the space available to him. His wife doesn't leave the vicinity of whichever shell she is using.

Sexing shelldwellers is relatively easy once you become familiar with the subtle differences between the sexes. Easier to observe than to explain succinctly however

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