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- I don't reckon on the spangles over the black spot throry being consistant, as I have a Ram which I will bet is a male and yet has spangles over the spot. Other things such as his finnage and belly colour make me think he is no lady.

x

yeah the only problem I can see with keeping all three is that the tank has quite a number of other inhabitants and its a 10g (6 threadfin rainbows, 1 oto, 1 cory) so i think it will be pretty full and crowded with 3 when they are full grown, especially because the rainbows are pretty boisterous...

that picture still looks a lot like my females except for the front dorsal rays and obviously square back of the dorsal. on my females the dorsal near the tail is similar to that but less square and my male has a long trailing point at the back of his dorsal. the coloration is similar on both sexes in mine except the black markings are faint on the male, but something tells me that he will develope stronger coloration.

Last edited by devon7 at 17-Dec-2004 00:59

Depending on the rams, they will sometimes harem spawn so if you have a big enough tank you should keep all three IMO, unless there are any problems. Not ALL rams will harem spawn but it's really cool if they do, they male will take turns with each female kind of like a lot of apistos do it. I personally would only remove the extra female if she is being harassed or if the tank is too small.

I wrote the sexing info for the profile on this site, fish1 has already posted it so no sense repeating. I was able to sex my rams at 1" but it can be very difficult. A lot of Asian fish farms have been using hormones in breeding rams, which some say has resulted in very masculine looking females and very effeminate males. This does make sexing harder, as ACIDRAIN mentioned, because males are showing up with blue spangles in their spots, females with the elongated dorsal ray "mohawks" and generally pointy fins have also been spotted quite a bit in stores. The same hormones can also cause sterility so that's another good reason to keep both females if you're unsure of the source of your rams.

Here's an example to show male fin shapes and colour:

trystianity attached this image:

yeah good point about the colors, i decided to get the male, and he is very obvoiously a male (by his fins etc.) and he has a pink spot on his tummy as well. they're about 1.5" i would guess... how long till they will show signs of pairing, or will they at all? I kept the two females so now i have a male and two females (im pretty sure anyway.) at first they were pushy with eachother, but now sometimes I see all three hanging out together.

Last edited by devon7 at 14-Dec-2004 22:26

I would never recommend sexing by their colors. The colors vary sooo much, that it would not be certain, even with the blue spangels, and even with the pink bellies. The only real way to sex them, is by the fin rays. With the males getting a "mohawk" of the first few rin rays of the dorsal fins, and eventually getting extended rays on the later part of the dorsal near the caudul fin, as it becomes older. The bad thing about this is, they do not get these differences until they become about 2 inches TL.

HTH.....

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There is always a bigger fish...

The male's front dorsal fin rays are much longer than the female's, forming the telltale "spike." The dorsal fin of the male also tends to have a pointed shape near the caudal fin, where the female's is more rounded. Females are smaller and have a reddish tinge on their pelvic regions, especially when getting ready to spawn. Also, the black spot on the side of the female blue ram may have irridescent blue spangles throughout, and the male's tends to be solid black.

this is from [link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/blueram.xml]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/blueram.xml" style="COLOR: #800080[/link]

sumbmitted by the ADMIN(Adam)!
trystianity, sirbooks contributed

OK.... Update...

I saw some nice rams at the LFS yesterday and now I am pretty sure I that mine are both females... They both have pink on their bellys (not orange but really pink) and the back of the dorsal fin (near the tail) is rounded on both. I think one ram is just more masculine.

NOW here is the question, the LFS had some beautiful and healthy looking males yesterday. Should I take back one of my females and trade it for a male, OR should I buy the male first and let him choose which female and THEN take the female back? If the latter is the better descision, then how long should I wait for the male to decide before I bring back the second female?

I guess it's all genetics between individuals then--I've never had the spangle test fail on me before---even with breeders. However, I only ever had three pairs, and only currently have one female left, so perhaps I don't have enough experience with the fish.

The two times I had pairs that laid eggs, the females (and it was obvious based on other criteria) had no blue dots over the black spot; the blue dots would only show up when the female was feeling stressed out or nervous.

Personally, I think the most reliable criteria is the red/pink/magenta belly, which has matched 100% with the sexing I've managed to do via behavior.

Last edited by Silverlight at 18-Nov-2004 22:49

I have 2 small rams, which I think are either 2 males or a male and a female. tip of nose to base of tail i would say they are 1"... is there any way to sex these guys at this size?

edit: my update and new question are at the end of the thread

Last edited by devon7 at 04-Dec-2004 09:45

I will try to take some more pictures tonight... how long does it take for them to reach full maturity?

the reason i think that they might both be males is that both of them have a ring of blue spangles AROUND the black spot on the edges but none actually in the middle of the black spot.

i agree with noodles

if the fish in the second picture is the fish on the right in the first picture, then youve probably got two females.

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Back in the saddle!

One easy way to tell males from females, besides what is mentioned above, is that females have iridescent sparkles in the black spot on their side, while males do not. It is difficult to see the fish on the right, but I *think* it is a male, and the other one is female.

Is there any chance that you can take more pictures?

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

If the fish in photo two is the fish to the right on photo one, I'd say you probably have two females, as the blue spangles are apparent on both fish.

On a male the first 3-4 rays of the dorsal fin will be longer and blacker than a female's. Also the first ray of the pectoral fins will be long in a male. Females will have a pink belly and while they have elongated rays on the dorsal the first ray of the pecks aren't elongated at all.

You may have to wait a little while to see who's who. Your Rams may not yet be mature enough to sex.

Nice looking Rams. I'm glad you got some.

Good luck, Mike.

ps. What happened at the post office with the pics?

hmmm they look very similar, what makes me think that 1 is a female is that her coloring is more dull and her black markings are smaller.... she has a little bit of a bigger body, too. here is the best picture I could get, i tried my best!

these are the 2 of them, the one i'm pretty positive is a male is on the left and the suspected female on the right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/devon7/rams.jpg

here is the one who i am not sure about but think is a female maybe:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/devon7/ramf.jpg

Ya but at a young age its a bit harder. But anyway males usually have longer fins and females have a pink coloring behind the cadual fin ( on there side ) .