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I was at my LFS today to buy a small school of Harlequin Rasboras to cycle my new 20 gal with. (Along with a packet of Bio-Spria to add tomorrow; we'll see if it works as well as people say!)

They only had 4 Harlies, but in the next tank, they had 3 "Black Rasboras". They are the exact same size and shape as the Harlies, but instead of a having a sharp black triangle on the lower 1/3 of their bodies, the triangle is much more blurry and extends a good 1/2 to 2/3 of the way along their bodies. The head coloring is similar, maybe even a bit more striking. I bought all 7, on the advice of the guy I was working with there, who said they would all school as if all of the same kind.

So far the Blacks are doing better in my tank than the Harlies -- the three Blacks and two biggest Harlies all schooled together immediately, while the other two Harlies (the smallest two and also palest in color) immediately hid and died within an hour. (I'll be calling the store in the morning to see if they will give me credit for them.)

Has anyone heard of these "Black Rasboras"? Are they just a color variation of the regular Harlequin? I have come up with nothing online, even after checking several different fish profiling pages. They look so similar and school together so well that I figure they must be closely related.

Also, even though Harlequins are considered peaceful, it's normal for them to do a little chasing in the early days of the school to establish a pecking order, right? The five surviving fish schooled peacefully for a few hours, but by this evening, one of the Blacks was clearly trying to establish dominance and was chasing the others around the tank. He didn't seem to be picking on the regular Harlies anymore than the other two Blacks, though, so I'm hoping it's normal behavior and not a case of these Blacks being more aggressive or anything.

Thanks for any info you can provide,

Kathy

I dont know about anyone else, but I think that you chose an awful lot of fish to cycle your tank with, and not the best species for it as well.
Recommended fish for cycling tanks are: Comets, Feeder Goldfish, Platies, White Cloud Mountain Minnows, Rainbowfish of several varieties, Buenos Aires Tetras, Black Widow Tetras, Danios,etc.
As for the type, I wonder if this is what fish you got:
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/lambchop.xml
I dont know if they will school with the harle's, it is doubtful, but they may depending on your fish. Rasboras are a sensitive fish, not one I would cycle a tank with.


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Thanks, Pete. I was told a few different people (here and on other boards) that Harlies are tougher than they look and should be fine to cycle with. But remember, I'm actually going to be adding the Bio-Spira, which is the main reason I decided to give it a go. The guy at my LFS, who seemed very knowledgeable (this is a fish-only store, not a general pet store), said they have done multiple trials with the Bio-Spira in the store and have been amazed by the results. So he agreed that Harlies would be OK with the Bio-Spira.

I might be proven wrong in the end, but I'd rather buy fish I want to keep long term than buy some danios just to cycle with then get rid of. (And I really think the two Harlies died not because of the cycle -- it hasn't even started yet -- but because they were sickly in the store or traumatize by the move, etc.)

As for the Lambchop Rasboras, I had found them on my initial search, too, but that's not what I have. This is a photo of the Lampchops:

http://www.myfishtank.net/freshwaterprofiles.php?profile=43

but mine have a much larger black area than a Harlie, not a smaller black triangle, like these Lambchops do.

Kathy

The fact that two of your Harlies died quickly will, I hope, dissuade you from ever using them to cycle a tank again. Harlequins are not the most delicate of fish, but they are NOT the sort of thing you should be using for that purpose. (On the other hand, I can vouch for Black Tetras being an excellent tough cycling fish.)

As for your Black Rasboras: they've started turning up at the very well-stocked main fish store in Sacramento. Apparently they are just an artifical breed of Harlequin. (The fish farms have now gotten so good at breeding even difficult fish like Neons and Harlequins that we're starting to see new artificial breeds of them, such as the "Diamond Neon".)

The guy at petsmart told me that harleys are rather hardy and would be ok to cycle my tank with, so I bought six to start my 29 gal. They had no problems at all, I did add the stress zyme and the stress kote that came with the tank tho. Aside from having to rescue one of them who had gotten wedged under a rock (he's fine now) they all did fine. After cycling (it took about 3 weeks) I added 4 black mollies and a rubbernose pleco. they're all ok

Welcome Kathy

I don't think it was the cycling process that killed the rasboras, if Bio-Spira was used. If they died within one hour of going into a fresh tank, then there were no cycling toxins yet. It often takes days at such a small load. Rather, it could have been the transition to a pristine tank. I quarantined rasboras in an uncycled tank using bio-spira and it worked fine. There were 6, very young, in a 5 gallon with a biowheel. The biowheel did run for only a week on my main tank. But, I added a pack of biospira and never saw ammonia or nitrites.

Also, Bio-Spira, unlike some of the other bacterial starters, truly does allow you to use more sensitive fish. I posted my numbers on this site when I did a test using biospira using my three new goldfish. They went into a brand new, uncycled 36 gallon bowfront, intended to be temporary. Within three days I had about 3ppm nitrates and the most ammonia I was able to read was 0.25 on the morning of day 3. By the evening it was gone, never to be seen again and I never did see nitrites. The nitrates continued to climb and by about 10 days was already at 15ppm. Fully cycled, no toxins.

Now, some fish can have difficulty with 0.25, but most aren't going to die from a few hours at that level. If it was daily for a week yes, but not such a short term.

I typically ask the store for a pH reading on their tank. I even take my high range tester with me since readings around here are kind of on the high side. Because their tanks are crammed with fish, it is not unlikely that they could have slighly lower pH.

If there was a 5 or 6 degree difference in tank them, then even that could have gotten them. Floating a bag for 30 minutes and raising/dropping a temp that quickly can lead to temp shock. I go a day ahead and ask for a reading on the tank temp. If there is a huge difference, I raise or lower my q-tine temp to be more in line with theirs, then alter it by 1F daily to get to my main tank level.

Also, others will tell you that the harlequin rasbora stock has been sickly. They are getting them way too young, as well, so they are more susceptible to shock.

Just thought I'd pass along personal experience with BioSpira. I have had slightly less success with Cycle and have found it is probably the best for a nitrite spike.

I will say tho, that it is still safest to use fish as mentioned above, but in time, as bacterial starters improve, tank cycling will change as will the fish that start aquariums. I recommend 1/4 stocking level to start or less if using BioSpira and a more sensitive species. I would advise this only if you don't want to use more traditionally hardy fish in your setup.

Sorry I can't answer anything about the Black Rasboras.

Diane

Last edited by Cory_Di at 12-Jan-2005 18:31

Last edited by Cory_Di at 12-Jan-2005 18:36

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Black Rasbora...

Just a quick update; thanks for all your replies.

I had very good luck with the BioSpira and I agree, Diane, that it wasn't the cycle that killed the first few Harlies. I think, like you said, they were sickly to begin with because they were very small and even quiet in the bag (the ones that lived were active in the bag and in the tank from the beginning). I did check with the LFS when I got the replacement Harlies and their PH is the exact same as mine (7.5), which was great to know.

Fortunately, the LFS was very nice about replacing the three that died for free. I even got lucky -- someone had just brought in two full grown Harlies after breaking down a tank, so I got those, too. They look wonderful in my tank, though they make the young ones look so little, LOL. (My 3 year old was especially excited to see the two big ones -- "You got the mommy and daddy fish, too!"

As for the Black Rasboras, the link in the post above isn't them ... or at least, not what my LFS was calling Black Rasboras. Mine have no defined triangle at all; their coloring is more diffuse and dark through most of the body of the fish.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I'm going to be keeping the Blacks ... they have been more aggressive against the regular Harlies than I would like. I was told they would all school together, and they will when something alarms them, but more often than not, the Blacks chase the Harlies around, breaking up their school and making them hide in the plants. Over the last several days, the Harlies have been getting a little braver, and even chasing back a bit, but I'm still not happy with the "bully fish" that the three blacks have become. (I got Harlies specifically because I didn't want that kind of bullying behavior.)

I have a friend down the street who has a tank and she's offered to take the Blacks for me for awhile. I want to see what the Harlies do when they aren't around, if they school better, etc. If so, I'll let her keep the Blacks and find something else to replace them.

Oh, and Diane, I also got a small school of Panda Cories and I love, love, love them! They are so much fun to watch. I call them "the puppies" because that's what they remind me of. Roly poly, up and down, climbing all over each other. Always make me laugh. I was hoping that a school of 4 would be enough to make them happy (I figured I could buy two more if they seemed stressed) and it clearly is. They are totally adorable.

Kathy