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Do you have an area planned out as to where to put the tub? Also, do you think the black tub could be a problem, as the color black retains heat? Could the black tub heat up too much in the summer sun?

Just thinking about some things.

oo oo i want to try this badly... i will take my time and wait till school is out so i can make sure im doing things right. do u think it would be a good idea to breed cardinal tetras this way or are they too delicate?...this sounds pretty fun

Anyone that has "warm" or "hot" summers can do this. Also here are a few other pointers;

1) Water Plants. Water Hyacinth and Water Lettuce are banned in some States and Countries. Due to their profilic nature, if released into the wild they can clog waterways in a heartbeat. Also Duckweed, which is a great source of cover and food.
(a) These plants serve as FILTRATION and AERATION in the "tub".
(b) Also, with the Root system of the Water Lettuce, it also does double duty as a natural Spawning mop.
(c) Also to stave off algal blooms.
(d) Attact bugs and critters. The best way to condition fish to breed is live foods. Bugs and other "pests" (such as Mosquitoes and Mosquito Larvae) are enjoyed. Besides, this is the ONLY source of food (unless its been cold for a couple of days, and I throw in some Bloodworms)

2) Location, Location. A place where it gets some sun but not enough to boil the water. Keeping the water in direct sunlight all the time will cause high water temps and algae blooms. Where my "TUB" is located it gets half and half. Shade in the mornings and sun in the late afternoon to evening

3) Replenish evapourated water. With the amount of rain my city has had (including many more in the midwest and eastern areas) in the past month, this is not a problem. This encourages your Water Hyacinth and Water Lettuce to reproduce (natural simulation of rising flood plains). If not, regular water placed into the tub will. I have not done this yet. I also do not condition it (unless your water is heavy with Chlormines) unless necessary.

4) Cycle it! I filled up the tub, placed in the water plants and let it sit for about 1 week. Then I went out and climatized the WCMM (they were in a tank nearing 80F).

5) Timing. Late May, early June is the best time to start for my geographic location. When the nightime temperature does not go below 50F is the best time! Times and temps vary from location to location. Generally when nights are constantly warm.

6) Size and Type. Tub size and type will define what and how many fish you can SAFELY keep in your tub. The person I contact about this kept his fish in 60 to 100GAL feeder troughs (which means lots of fish!). Strong durable containers (anything light and flimsy will not last) will do. Rubbermaid (no commercial plugs) seems to always be the best. If you can access feeder troughs (rubber) even better.

Placing 4 Snakeskin Gourami in a 27GAL tub is a death sentence. These reach (mature) 10" a piece. Then include in your total the amount of fry produced and estimated survival rate of 60-80%. Outside conditions warrant better survival for some reason.

I placed 8 WCMM in a 27GAL tub. I have a backup plan if many fry are produced (another tub will be purchased to accomodate) and survive, which is another tub (60GAL).

7) Offloading of the fry. Remember, broods are larger and have better survival rates outside. Be prepared to offload (if the odds are with you) many fish to your local LFS. This is the reason I went with Golden WCMM. Getting rid of fry can be an tedious process. Once again, Water Quailty comes into play with lots of fish. WCMM fry are marketable after 2 1/2 months.

8) RESEARCH. Do not go BLINDLY into this. Research and see if you have the time and devotion to do this. Quitting the project halfway through is no good for you and your fish. Also research mating habits and needs of the fish you intend to "Summer Tub". Also learn to determine MALE and FEMALE (with WCMM it is hard) sexes of fish you wish to breed. This way you do not Summer a tub full of males or females all summer with obvious no result.

Some fish I have confirmed that have been bred in this manner are as follows; Snakeskin Gourami, Zebra Danio, White Cloud Mountain Minnow, various Tetra, Corydoras, Betta splendens, Dwarf Gourami and ANY Livebearer (Guppies, Platies, Swords....)

This is a fun and rewarding project if you decide to go foward and do it. At this time, I suspect I have 2 Females in the tub. One of the WCMM looks quite fat already. I hope this is not the water or my hopeful mind playing tricks on me.

Gary

Okay this is really really tempting....sooooo tempting....however I'm worried about temperatures. Summers here in maryland easily reach 100F plus....any idea if something similar ( I love the lack of electricity in this experiment ) might work for me ?

^_^

Thanks, they (WCMM) have been quite active and nail anything that flys even close to the water's surface. To entice more bugs and provide more shade, my wife moved some of her large houseplants around the tank. NOw it looks nice.

Yesterday (Saturday May23rd), we spotted 2 Dragonflies on our now reproducing Water Hyacinth.

Gary
BTW:Weekly report due on Thursday.

Congrats on reaching the end of your quest! It'll be interesting to see how this works out.

Day 8 - (May 20th) - Inhabitants!
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Ironically, my search ended where my tub began! I decided to "pop in" to the LFS that is close to my work. I only had to go down 2 aisles (kinda like a renovated warehouse but all fish/pond/aquarium supplies) of tanks to find what I have been looking for --- Golden White Cloud Mountain Minnows. To increase my odds, I have purchased 8. I should have at least one Female in the lot. I hope that I did not get all male or all female! Here is a pic of my find! What a relief to know that the search is over and now the game is afoot. They are already plucking the bugs off the top of the water like there is no tomorrow. Where the TUB is situated, I can easily watch things from the comfort of my side enterance way. But what is the fun in that? I am anxious to watch for results. The Water Hyacinth has bloomed fully. Pic to come shortly. Cost of all 8 fish came up to $18.73 Canadian. So, in total, the whole project so far has cost me $71.26

Weekly updates from this period forward (less reading for some folk and typing for me, now that the startup phase has begun) and good or bad news postings.

Gary

Day 6 (Flowering Plants)
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Still no luck on finding Golden White Cloud Minnows. Bugs are starting to hang out my "still water" and I am getting anxious to get some fish in there. I might just break down and put in regular White Clouds. I am heading to Toledo on Monday, I might make a few stops to "check up" on a few sources.

My Water Hyacinth has started to flower. And looks like its propagating itself.. cool.

Gary

Whoa - this sounds really intersting - I can't wait to find out what comes of this experiment!

Good luck - and cute looking kid!

Day 5 (Weather Changes)
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Still no sign locally of ANY Golden WCMM. I might have to go to the original source in Detroit to get some. The weather is warm during the day (21-23C or 71-74F) but the nights are a bit chilly still (9-11C or 49-52F). I have been told that to maintain fish, I should wait until the nights do not drop below 60. So I wait but still search.

Babel;no you missed nothing. No pumps, no filters. Water Lettuce and Hyacinth are my filtration/areation devices. The person whom has been "guiding" me, always does this and produces some amazing fish during the summer.

So far this person has breed (outdoors in the most low tech way possible); Guppies, Endler's Guppies, Snakeskin Gourmai, Zebra Danio, White Clouds (by the ton he added) and a few of the Tetra species. And best part is, he lives in an area of the world close to me (4-6hrs) which means we sometimes deal with similiar weather patterns created by the Great Lakes.

Gary

This sounds very interesting. I hope you can find some gold wcmm's!

hmm...this sounds interesting.....cant wait to here more and good luck

This looks like an interesting project...the tote that you've found, do the sides bend @all from the weight of the water ? And am I to understand that this is filtered only thru live plants or did I miss the insertion of a pump somewhere ?

oh and you're daughter is an absolute cutie ... good job getting her hooked earlie enough .

^_^

Day 4 (May 17th, 2004) - The Search Begins
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Checked after work at 2 LFS's no Golden White Cloud Mountain Minnows. The place that I THOUGHT FOR SURE would have them sold the rest of them during the weekend. Drat! I really do not want to relocate the ones that I have in Zen, as I would feel bad (this is the number one sign that you are hooked in the hobby).

I placed an order at another LFS for 4 Females and 2 Males. Gotta have some good luck with this!

Joe Fishy, if all else fails then I will go with the regular variety, though I have my heart set on Golden.

That wild fish must have ate a lot of eggs. WCMM lay quite a lot and it takes 2 months to have the fry become marketable!

Gary


[span class="edited"][Edited by Crazygar 2004-05-17 20:20][/span]

Trust me, you'll have fry soon enough! I put 7 wc (6 longfins and 1 gold) in my 60g pond last year, pulled them out in October, and had 15! I also had a larger wild fish in with them (I was unaware of this, believe it or not), so it probably ate some of the eggs or fry. Enjoy!

awesome...I wanted to try this, too

Day 3 (May 16th, 2004) - Cold Water
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Tub temperature has warmed up again to around the 14C or 63F mark. Long term forecast says warm until next Sunday, but I might go overboard on floating plants to try and retain more heat in the tank. Going to purchase more "floating" plants on the way home from work tomorrow.

The plants should provide some shade and considering its in the sun from 11am to 7am (starts to cool off) I think that is enough time. And not truly concerned about that much of a water temp change as I will be filling it due to extensive evapouration around here.

Gary

Picture 1: The overview of the tub. Hmmm, I wonder who is taking the photos?

Picture 2: My daughter, Cassandra (3yrs old), whom is the self-proclaimed keeper of the "New Fish".

Picture 3: Some duckweed above the major root system of one of my Water Lettuce. Nice for hiding eggs, fry and micro organisms to munch on.

Picture 4: The cluster of the plants to gether. Looking forward to get this in gear.

Crazygar attached this image:
[img]http://www.fishprofiles.net/attachments/355019.jpg"]

Having read many articles describing how people have gotten fish to breed for them outdoors I have decided to give it whirl. This is my first attempt (god only knows why!) at this. For my test subjects I have my heart set on Golden White Cloud Minnows. Due to their hardiness and active nature as a mosquite larvae eater.

Living here in the Southern Ontario "Banana Belt" the weather during our Summers (which last long) can get unbelievably hot. And even more so humid. So this might be the perfect location (I read another article about someone in Ohio whom is doing this and Ohio is in my "Local" area) to attempt such a feat.

The following article will be like a mini-diary of the setup

Day 1 (May 14th, 2004)
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Went down to the local Canadian Tire Store (giant Hardware/Garden/Automotive store in Canada) and picked up a plastic tote which I hope will be able to withstand some wacky temps and changes. For $28.75, I am not going to argue. This should fit the bill. The tote size is 27GALLON and though the colour really should not matter, I picked up a dark (black) coloured one.

Now the search for Water hyacinth (Eichhornia Crassipes) and Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes) which are the best for filtration and areation of the water. I found some at a local fish store and picked up 2 Water hyacinth and 2 Water Lettuce coming up to $23.78. So far I am in for $52.53 Canadian.

Filled it 3/4 of the way up and put in the plants. To my surprise, some Duckweed has hitched a ride. Oh well, great and free oxygenator as well. I think I will have some happy Golden White Cloud Minnows. Added some water conditioner and now I am going to let the tank sit until Monday.

The location seems perfect, shaded during the morning and by late morning (10:30-11am) starts to get more sun. The microorganisms in the tub should have a heyday before the arrival of their hunters.

The following response is a small picture profile of the setup.

Gary