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well, i have some partial schools of tetras and the like that will be moved into the new tank, so the proposed stock list is with them in mind. before i pose questions, i will give you some info about the tank.

tank is 30x12x18. i am running a mixture of fine subsrate with some larger smooth 1cm river rock mixed in...natural and non resin or coated junk.

the tank will not be planted as i have a brown thumb and the consolidating tanks in not only do to water quality issues because of how tall and narrow my 26 gallon was, but also the massive infestation of snails in the 10 gallon. yes, i know natural plants look better and are healthier for the fish, but it just isnt a option for me right now...plus i have no money for the plants anyway.

water specifics...tank temperature will be at a stable 76 degrees farenhieght, ph stays at 7.0, water is slightly hard. note: there will be real driftwood in the tank as well...so on to filtration...

two over the back filters (Whisper 30s) rated at 150 GPH each, and two Hagen Elite Mini Underwater Filters rated at 58GPH each(using these to stick charcoal and ammonia absorbing resin in and also for the airator effect these little things have...works like a powerjet but with out as much current). charcoal in the small filters is replaced weekly. water changes are going to depend on final stock list, but will be once or twice weekly after determining how heavy the stock will be. the tank is also making use of twin airstones. note: i will not be using a under gravel filter...however when i do water changes i vacuum thuroughly.

so, thats where i am at...

my stock list must contain the following:

(3)cherry barbs

lemon tetras

ember tetras

spotted/peppered/whatever you want to call them corydoras

(1) bolivian ram

(1) south american bumblebee catfish(2.25 inch nocturnal catfish, doesnt eat or poop much, doesnt take up any of the tank except between 1am-5am)

i currently have two female cherry barbs, male passed away a while ago, was going to add a single male. dont think i need any more than that for this size of tank after the research i have done on them.

now, what i really need help with is numbers people! with those tank specs, how many should i add to each school without stressing the tank much and creating a huge bioload? i would prefer to way understock it just to be on the safe side...so, what are the numbers?

I would go with -

3 cherry barbs
6 lemon tetras
6 ember tetras
6 peppered corydoras
1 bolivian ram
1 south american bumblebee catfish




http://www.flickr.com/photos/corydoras/
Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
http://www.maltaaquarist.com

In my experience I've found that Cherry Barbs do much better in a school. The 3 I had always hid from one another, but now that I have 6(3 of each gender) they go everywhere together. Just something to keep in mind when stocking.

That's a standard 29g and they are rather tall and narrow. I don't think they come in long. The closest sized long tank is the 30g at 36".

I'm concerned about the substrate. Can you do proper gravel vacs with your mixed substrate? Mixing different sizes usually leads to headaches because either 1 will be too small and get sucked up the gravel vac tube or 1 will be too large and clog things up. It easily leads to trapped detritus and bad water quality along with excessive snail population from eating the detritus that isn't being removed.

I'd using that stocking list but do 4 maybe 5 peppered cories. Generally you want 6 minimum but they are a rather large cory and might overstock the tank at 6. You definitely cannot fit 6 cherry barbs with the others. That many schools is already pushing it for the dimensions of a 29g. 3 mid dwelling schools would be far too many. Cherry barbs also tend to dislike schools and do better in trios so those may just be some odd cherry barbs or there's something in the setup making them act different such as a threatening fish.

Agreed, Sham.

IME, mixed substrate ends up blended and the small stuff eventually ends up at the bottom, despite my best intentions. This really doesn't work if you have a UGF like I do.

I'm no expert, but I do love Corys. Even so, I'd say 4 rather than 6 with what you have planned. And putting 3 sets of shoaling fish in such a small tank makes me nervous. If it were me, I'd keep the Corys and skip one set of Tetras.

I vote! Do you?

ok, lemme clarify things a little bit...the cherry barbs i had did excellant in a trio. heck, the two females always stick together and dont hide from one another. the embers stay up towards the top of the tank, i rarely see the cherry barbs go above the low/mid hieght of the tank except when feeding. the ram occupies the bottom mid, and ussually stays in a 12" box in the corner of the tank. the embers stay very small and dont eat or poo alot...i have found that 6 of them is less of a bio load that two lemon tetras...anyway...the cory that i have(had a wierd illness affect the others that no one here could help me with and i have no idea what it was) the only one left in the school is this type of cory: http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/612.htm
it says they get quite large, but after over a year this one has yet to get more than 2".

also, the ember tetras stay in densely funished areas of the tank, and the lemons prefer the open areas...i dont think there will be much competition for space. not to mention, but the school of 5 that i have right now only takes up MAYBE a 3" square box...they swim tightly together, and they are adult size and just under 1",lol.

onto the substrate...the smaller substrate is about 1/4 of a centimeter, and the large stuff is 1/2 to 1 cm...it will end up on the bottom eventually...the reasoning for mixing the substrate was to allow the finer substrate not to get hard packed as easy since i DO NOT HAVE A UGF ...so that also answers that question. i also tried my gravel vac before mixing all the substrate to ensure that it would work properly. dropped a shrimp pellet in and waited 20 minutes, mixed it into the substrate and then tried vacuuming it...works well!

even though my one peppered cory didnt get very large, according to this site they can get much larger than he or she is...so i will allow for room. so, from everyones suggestions, this is my current thoughts...

(1) Bolivian Ram
(3) Cherry Barbs
(6) Lemon Tetras
(8) Ember Tetras
(4) Peppered Corys

ok, there is some more info. also, keep in mind i am WAY over filtered, running air stones and plan on 2x a week water changes. i also moniter my water quality very closely.

I would go for it reun & keep up with the water changes



http://www.flickr.com/photos/corydoras/
Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
http://www.maltaaquarist.com

Maybe it depends on the size of the tank. Mine were in a trio in a 20 gallon, and are now in a shoal/school of 6 in a 55 gallon. All 6 were in the 20 gallon for about 2 weeks before they moved to the bigger tank, and they seemed to do better that way. I have read that while they can do good in trios, they do fine in schools as well. It could depend on the fish though. If yours are fine in a trio then it's not a problem.

But back to the original question. I also think that 3 mid-dwelling schools may be too many. You may want to just try 2, but since you're gonna have a trio of Barbs it might be okay. Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

A UGF makes little difference in mixed substrates unless your doing something really small like sand which falls through the ugf. The mixed substrate will still be a pain. The small pieces won't be kept from packing but depending which substrate is lighter will seperate out so you either have a packed bottom or top layer with the larger stuff getting in the way. That makes it very hard to clean the bottom. You need to be able to get all the way down to the glass for cleaning or detritus will get stuck down in the substrate causing high nitrates and releasing toxic gas. It may work with a very shallow substrate (~1" ) but anything very deep may cause problems. The cories are the first ones affected so if you see sick cories, bubbles from the substrate, or higher than normal nitrates you may need to redo it or at least remove some of your substrate.

That stock should work fine but I wasn't thinking at all about bioload when I said 3 mid-top dwelling schools is too many. I was thinking about swimming space. Even if some of them only hang out in certain areas they are still taking up that space so the others can't swim there. With 3 full schools they run into each other and you end up with more chaos than normal schooling behavior. That's why I'd keep the cherry barbs limited and concentrate on only 2 tetra schools.

The cory may just be stunted. I got some from a rather poor quality store that never got over 1" including the few that lasted more than 6months and they all died early deaths compared to what they could have lived.

well, again, small schools, and while they have their favorite parts of the tank, they intermingle and swim together too...both small schools(only 5 of each right now) are going everywhere in the tank, but still have their favorite hang outs. and even when they come across eachother the embers have always stayed in a tight school...the lemons however, even when they were by themselves in a community tank in a school of 10 with a DG to bully them around only schooled when i cleaned the tank, so i doubt that the behavior will change in a school of 7 without an agressive fish,lol.

i will not be getting more cherry barbs, 3 is plenty for this size of tank.

no UGF, and, the substrate is 1" deep...i will have pictures soon...so yes, i go all the way to the glass...

p.s. the cory seems very healthy, but it is possible about the stunting...prolly didnt help that it spent half of its life with only 1 other cory companion since the whole school died off and i no longer had a suitable tank to get a full school again.

Hi there,
just to put my 2 cents in there, I would never ever suggest keeping Cory cats in any group less than 6-8 individuals. These are Schooling fish and 4 fish a school does not make.
Are you sure it is a pepper cory, with a 1 inch total size sounds much more like it could be a Corydoras Hasbrosus, which are also kind of spotted.

Pepper Cory C. Paleatus
http://www.akvarius.no/images/corydoras_paleatus_02.jpg

Dainty Cory C. Hasbrosus
http://www.akwafoto.pl/fotoreport/rychnov2001/corydoras_habrosus1.jpg

Also, Trilineatus are another option

http://www.scotcat.com/images/c_trilineatus.jpg

And also Juli's
http://www.scotcat.com/images/julii2.jpg


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Pepper Cory C. Paleatus thats the one! exactly like mine!
its actually about 2" but very dainty...but i had not seen a cory that looked like it other than the peppered cory...the store labeled them as peppereds, and it sure looks like the photos for their profile and what you linked. he or she should be about 2 years old now...do they grow past that age? it says they get more to 2.5"...is that too large to have say 5 of them for my tank?

i did get some pictures of the tank set up finally...

the 29 gallon finished

so, thats where i am at now...still runnining 5 filters with used media to keep the tank from spiking...so far so good...current load is 1 ram, 5 embers, 5 lemons, 2 female cherry barbs, and one of those corys.

p.s. these were fish i already had...my 26 gallon started leaking a few days ago, and since this is in a upstairs apartment and not a basement or in a garage it had to be replaced fast...otherwise there wouldnt be any fish in there right now...i am hoping that many oversized filters with old media will compensate though.

If its a smaller, slimmer bodied cory its likely that its a male. In my experience only the female Corys seem to get as large as general sizes state. I have had pepper corys myself where the females were all whopping 2.5-3 inch specimens, with all the males being barely half that size!
The tank looks great by the way.
I dont think there will be any problem with having 6 pepper corys in that size tank, as they will mostly have the bottom area to themselves since the bumble cat is small and secretive and you only have the lone ram.
Should be fine!



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