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yeah none of my swortails have swords and I got them in april when they were I believe a couple months old. I've heard that male swordtails can develope their swords really late, though I dont know how late is "really late."

so far this has been the most helpful forum i have posted at!

i would get p.scalere as the altums are almost all wild and can as difficult if not more than discus. i too am getting an angel and found out that they dont need groups and single is good.

Neons are natural prey of angels. I'm not sure how cardinals would do with them.

A single angel would be fine in a 30g but with your other fish you might be overstocked.

Yoyos or kuhlis should be kept in groups of at least three. I like both but kuhlis are naturally nocturnal. It's common though to see them more often during the day once they're comfortable and feel safe in their new tank.

Most people will recommend cories in schools of at least 6. Same with the harlequins and cardinals.



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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

you can keep an angel singly, unless you want to breed them. i don't know that i can say for sure that an angel won't eat your cardinals, but they supposedly prefer neons for food. if the angel gets big enough to fit a cardinal in its mouth then you will know for sure i suppose i would not add the loaches, but instead add 4-5 more cories. they prefer larger groups, so the more the merrier

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

First of all devon, welcome to Fish Profiles I understand the frustration and questions of water quality, stocking rules, compatibility, etc etc when it comes to fish keeping. That's why this site exists. You've come to the right place.

Next, let's get down to business. I do have a few suggestions for you, as well as some general rules that are recommended.

1) Cardinals, like all tetras, are schooling fish and should be kept in a group of 6 or more. Tetras school by sight, so unfortunately a mish-mash of varieties cannot create a school. Bumping your school to 7 is a good start

2) Corys are also schooling fish, and the same rules apply as the tetras, tho some argue that different varieties CAN make a school. So instead of 2 more corys, I would get 5 or 6.

3) Unfortunately, your honey gouramis combined pretty much meet the stocking limit of your 10 gallon. Most people go by 1" of fish per gallon, and in most cases is a safe rule. Honey gouramis get about 4-5 inches.

4) With the above being said about stocking, let's consider the 29g (as I believe it to be) tank. Seven cardinals equals about 7 inches. Each cory is about 1.5 inches, so let's assume you have 6 of them total, giving you 9 inches. The four swords are about 16 inches, 4 inches each. So far, with the cardinals, corys and swords, we have a total of 32 inches. Eventhough that is considered overstocked according to the 1 inch per gallon rule, it would be juat fine with proper filtration.

5) Angels are really too big for that size tank. They need lots of room to swim.

6) Of course this leaves us with the problem that you still want loaches and you are getting rasboras (which also need to be in a school). From here I think you need to sit down and think about what you want your tanks to look like. Decide which fish you really like and must have, and which ones you can live without. Look at the profiles on this site to help you with determining which species like similar water conditions and sizes to make sure you don't overstock. If need be, I'm sure your lfs will take in any of the fish you may have to get rid of, and may even give you in store credit for them. It can be a chore and frustrating at times, but really thinking this out and planning ahead will make you and your fish much happier and healthier in the long run.

I think I've rambled enough now :%) but I really hope this helps you. I'm sure other members will soon jump in and correct anything I said wrong and add anything I forgot. Remember, we just want to help you the best that we can. Good luck

]<]Dani<]<

First off I'd like to ask if you could return any of the fish. The swordtails in particular get pretty large. Since the other posters have given you all the advice, I'll suggest some stocking options.


29/30 gallon:

2 honey gouramis
6 jullii (really trilineatus) cories
4 swordies
6 harlie rasboras

10 gallon:

8 cardinal tetras

29/30 gallon:

1 honey gourami
3 yoyo loaches
6 harly rasboras
6 cardinal tetras

10 gallon:

1 honey gourami
6 cories

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They shade the glow of it with their mossy-misty costumes,
They wear masks of silk, porcelain, brass, and silver,
So as not to mislead with their own, ordinary faces.

Dani pretty much nailed it all down, for a quickie checklist, here's a couple things...

1)29 gallon stocklist: The 4 swordtails (though if they're all males, they may fight a little), 6-8 julii cories, and 6-10 cardinal tetras......IF you keep good filtration and regular water changes, after a couple of months, you might be able to put ONE Honey Gourami in there...

2)10 gallon stocklist:My recommendation would be the harlequin rasboras and set up a school of 6-8 of them in there...

3)Returns:Gouramis (for now)

Overall, I think these setups would make for some BEAUTIFUL tanks. I hope you agree, but if you have any further questions, feel free to ask. Dani can help you out with anything else you might be wondering...

PM/email/msg me if you have any questions/comments regarding me or my knowledge or if you want me to read a thread.

Altums are very different from Scalare angels. Altums get bigger and taller than regular angels, and will NOT fit in a 29 gallon AT ALL.

However, altums are fine with most tetras. For the most part, altums can be treated like Discus, except that altums can reach about 14 to 16 inches from top of dorsal to bottom of anal fin.

Thanks everyone for the info i've gotten so far! yeah first off I am thinking I will return the honey gouramis or seek an alternate home for them.

good news, I have also been potentially offered another 10 gallon w/accesories by another one of my friends who didn't quite take to fish keeping as well as i did that would help out my distribution as I have all these schooling fish without proper schools!

Also, I would return my swordtails but they were my first fish and came from my best friends tank when her swordtails had a million babies! as far as I know they are all females, though they are probably only about 8 months old.

Yay! That's some good news.

As for the swordtails, males have the swords and females don't... I'm assuming by 8 months of age the males would have developed their swords Then again I've never raised swordtail fry, so how would I know

Keep us posted on what you decide to do, and if you have any more questions

]<]Dani<]<

Hello! First off let me give you my tank info:

right now I have a 10 gal. with 1 jullii cory, 2 red honey gouramis, 4 pineapple swordtails, and 3 cardinal tetras. I recently aquired what is a 29 or 30 gallon tank (dimensions 30wx12dx19h) from a friend who is moving. I am going to move most of my community (the cory, swordtails, and cardinals i think) up to the 30, and start a new small community in my 10 gal with my gouramis. Here is what I sort of have planned for my 30 gal, though nothing is definite:

-Raising my school of cardinals to 7
-Adding 2 or more jullii corys
-keeping my 4 swordtails
-adding 3 yo yo loaches (if I can find them! if not I am thinking of kuhli loaches)

is this too full? what else would do nicely? Is that too many bottom feeding fish? i think i might need more flashy mid-upper water level fish or centerpiece fish.

I am also aquiring 4 harlequin rasboras from the previous tank owner. Should I keep these in the 30 or move them down to the 10 with the gouramis? or should I move the gouramis up and start my 10 gal with one of my other groups?

I am also interested in angels, I've heard they will try to eat my cardinals, is this true, or will they only eat neons? Is this the same for altum angels? I have also heard that angels either need to be alone or in groups greater than 3. is this true? does that also apply to altums?

[span class="edited"][Edited by devon7 2004-09-05 10:19][/span]

Duh! I totally forgot. Another way to tell the difference between male and female swords, platys and the like is to look at the fin on their belly closest to the tail. A female's is triangular while a male's looks more tubular.

]<]Dani<]<

then yes, my swordtails are all females.

do the swortails need to be together or could I split them up into 2 pairs? I always thought of swortails as schooling fish, but I can never be too sure.

No, swordtails aren't schooling. As long as they are all female, you can split them up. If some were male, you would have to worry about the ratio of 1 male to every 2 females.

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They shade the glow of it with their mossy-misty costumes,
They wear masks of silk, porcelain, brass, and silver,
So as not to mislead with their own, ordinary faces.

Thanks for that info, I think I will split the swordtails up into 2 pairs of females. (2 for the 10g and 2 for the 30g)

now heres a thought, wouldnt it be nice to have a male and 2 females for the 30 gallon? my friend who gave me the swortails also takes care of the tank at my school which is full of about 3 month old fry from the same mother as my fish! I could very easily swipe a male from school. it would be interesting to watch him grow up, too.

It would be possible, but that total number of swordtails in there would not stay at 3 for very long. Swordtails are livebearers and would quickly bear some more life. Be prepared for a considerable number of swordtails on your hands in a matter of time in that tank if you do add a male. Make sure you've got somewhere for them all to go...

PM/email/msg me if you have any questions/comments regarding me or my knowledge or if you want me to read a thread.

the angel might eat a lot of the babies

hmm that is true, I was assuming they would get eaten but then I realized I am planning to have basically all docile fish in there!

Swords and angels wont mix well in a tank that small.