FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Hello,
I have decided against a Mbuna tank as in my other thread. I have to decided to have a community tank with NO livebearers. I will have The Following along with some of your suggestions...

1 Pair Of Rams (To attempt to breed, I want to see them protect the fry big time)
X amount of Lemons, Neons, Harlies, Leopard Corys.
Maybe a gourami or two

Please fill in the X for each...

So The steps of what Happen in my tank are as follows...
1. Clean out tank from before
2. Order Driftwood from here and put it in... http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12027&ref=3969&cm_mmc=LiveAquaria_DFS_Links-_-Fish_Supplies-_-LiveAquaria_Gen_Page-_-Decor&subref=AA&N=2004+113714
(Linksie Please)I am thinking of the XL Gnarled one and Maybe some other one.
3. Let tank Cycle
4. Put in 4 German Blue Rams and hope they pair off and sell back the others
5. Insert the rest of the fish and be happy!

I am also wondering if my 29g can get a hood upgrade so I can get plants. Any Comments on this log would be appreciated. Thanks.

Chris

Step 2 is complete, I am still awaiting stocking Ideas and the shipment. According to some very general stocking rules can I have 29 inches of Fish, Does that apply here? All help would be appreciated.

Chris

Hello, I looked over what you were looking at and I came up with this. This is what I would do.

7-Lemon Tetras
10-Neon Tetras
4-Leopard Corys
2-Rams

I dropped the Guorami idea because primarily your choices of fish were from South America. You may as well make it a South American theme, so I wouldnt use the Guoramis. Also for that reason I would not use the Harlequins and because they are schooling fish like the Lemons and Neons and I dont think you have room for another school.

You didn't say what you were running for filtration. Personally, my suggestion up above would be the max load I would place on my tank. I like to have some play room.

Yep I would go for the XLRG Gnarled piece myself too! I am excited to see how it turns out as I have a 29 gal. too. Good Luck!

"Talk is cheap. Action can be almost as affordable"

Okay, That seems good. Do Corys School? Also Is there any chance of Getting Harlies, I really like those. Could I maybe get Less Lemons or neons. I am just thinking aloud. Suggestions welcome. Thanks.

Chris

Yup, cories school. I'd actually reccomend getting a group of eight of them. When I tried it, mine never did well in smaller groups.

You can get harlies if you want them. It is your tank, after all. Personally, I'd stick with two schooling species instead of getting smaller groups of three. Larger groups look a -lot- better and the fish will be happier.

______________
Cake or death?

Hey this sounds like its going to be a great tank. Are you going to plant it? Also if I were you I would forget the lemon tetras and up the cories and neons. Something like this:

2 Blue Rams
6 Cories
15 Cardinals or neons (I prefer cardinals because they are more hardy and slightly larger)

I have a few reasons for this...
1. Cories are more happy and more entertaining in a good sized school.
2. 2 schools of tetras will make the tank seem chaotic and I think a large school of tetras swimming around the tank is very appealing. especially in close schooling tetras like neons/cardinals.

Good luck!

Well, I think 4 Cories is the Maximum amount of Cories. I would also only probably get 10 per school. Would I be able to get something like this...

2 Rams
10 Neons
7 Lemons
4 Cories

Also what looks better schooling... Lemons or Harlies? Thanks.

Chris

Yeah you could do that although thats a rather small school of cories. As for the lemons and harlies, depends on your opinion but just to let you know harlies are closer schoolers than lemons.

Ethan may have a point with the closer school. I was thinking about the color combinations you would have with my suggestion though. I think the clash of the yellow in the Lemons and the Neons will be better compared to the Harlies. Also I go back to what I said about having a South American Biotope. With that in mind I would stay away from the Harlies myself. But most importantly it is your tank and if you like the Harlies then by all means go with your gut. After all you are the one who gets the pleasure of looking at it daily. Have fun with this decision time though. I think it is one of the funnest parts of this hobby, exploring all your options.

"Talk is cheap. Action can be almost as affordable"

So this is probably my stocking list...
2 Rams
10 Neons
7 Lemons
4 Cories
Is there anything else I should know about this? Is this going to be a "full" tank? Before I start to make day by day stuff I am just awaiting my Wood. Thanks.

Chris

Post the dimensions of your aquarium - length x width x height - and I'll be able to say more definitively whether or not you can bump up the Corys to 6 without overloading your biofilter. Also post details of the type of filtration being used (undergravel, canister etc) and whether or not you intend to have a 'belt and braces' setup with a UGF and a HOB working together for example. If you have multiple filtration systems working in there, you'll have slightly more room for manouevre.

I'm tempted to suggest a couple of other choices for your Tetras by the way.

If you can find Ember Tetras to go alongside your Neons, the colour contrast will be pretty nice, but the advantage of the Ember Tetras is that they are TINY - fully grown they're even smaller than the Neons will be - and consequently you could have 10 of each (Neons and Embers) and STILL have room for 6 Corys.

Embers are starting to appear in numbers here in the UK and are becoming quite popular precisely BECAUSE they are so small and it's possible to have a decent sized shoal in a modest sized aquarium. Also, I suspect there's at least one supplier in Europe that's breeding them on an industrial scale, so the price over here is dirt cheap - a shoal of 10 will cost me about £6 if I decide to get them.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

The Dimensions of the Tank are 30 x 12 x 16in. I have a HOB Filter with a bio-wheel. Onto Fish... So I am not too big a fan of the small Embers. Thank you for the suggestion but I do not think they will fair well with how I am planning on seting up my tank. I was kinda thinking of One type of 'Sleek' Tetra and another 'Bulkier' one like the lemons. I need to know though. How tight of schoolers are Lemons and do they get boring after a while? Thanks.

Chris

I personally prefer the look of Harlequins over Neons, but they would be a bit out of place, since the other fish are from South America.

Bump the cory school up to atleast 6. You have the room. I have 12 cories in my 29g and while that sounds a bit overstocked, there is plenty of room on the bottom for all of them. 6 Cories would be ok and still give the Rams enough room.

You can get another hood for the tank if you want more plant choices. I haveTHIS fixture over my 29g and it allows me to grow alot of medium light plants and even some higher light, even with only 2.2 watts per gallon.
You may be able to buy a retrofit kit and insert it into your existing fixture. AH Supply has retrofit kits. There is a picture of the 55w kit fitted into a 24 inch hood. I think you could fit it into a 30 inch 29g hood as well...but you'll have to know a little about electric work, though they do give you instructions.

*Kristin*

Are There any other ones that you have seen that give better light or will that one be able to handle Cabomba (My all time favorite plant)? Do anyone have any pictures of Lemon Tetras or Harlies schooling, I am deciding between those. So what your saying is...
2 Rams
10 Neons
7 Lemons
6 Cories

Thanks.

Chris

I had Lemons for the best part of 8 years. Their behaviour is a good deal more interesting than the words 'shoaling Characin' would at first imply.

First of all, they WILL shoal in your intended setup because of the Rams. If the Lemons are the dominant fishes in there, or they are surrounded by other fishes of like type and have no companions that act as faux predators to encourage schooling (i.e., your Rams), then they can become pretty laid back about the shoaling aspect of their behaviour.

However, when the fishes become sexually mature, this is when their behaviour acquires extra interesting nuances.

The males are distinguished from the females by the thickness of the black band at the edge of the anal fin. There are other characteristics that can differentiate them, but this is the reliable one. Females have an anal fin that is marked with a fine black line, almost as if drawn on with a very sharply pointed mascara pencil. Males, on the other hand, have a much thicker band, and in prime alpha males, this can account for a third of the depth of the anal fin. Males frequently have longer and more pointed dorsals with higher contrast markings than females, but this isn't a reliable indicator of gender, as females in prime condition can sport impressive dorsals too.

Once you have some distinguishable males in the aquarium, watch them closely. You will find that they adopt 'landmarks' in the aquarium, in a manner also seen in Silver Tip Tetras (which, incidentally, is another choice you could run with that would provide you with interesting behaviour apart from shoaling). Once the male Lemons adopt a 'landmark', they use this for two purposes: signalling to other males to establish a pecking order with respect to forthcoming mating, and showing off to the females.

When two males in 'exhibition' mode approach too closely, the 'jousting' starts. This is entirely a ritualised form of combat - the fishes never come to blows. But you have to have pretty keen vision to notice that they 'pull their punches' at the very last moment, because it looks as if they are taking body swipes at each other to the untrained eye. Even if you watch them closely, you might have to go to the trouble of filming them at speed and viewing the footage slowed down to see that the action is entirely ritual. Two males will display to each other, adopting a head-up posture, fins flared and erect to make themselves look as big and imposing as possible, then they will make darting passses at each other. This can go on for 30 minutes or more. It looks aggressive, but as I said, it's entirely ritualised. Both combatants emerge from the fray with intact fins even after a solid 30 minutes or so of continuous 'jousting'.

Once the Lemons get around to mating, the posture adopted by the male in front of a female being courted bears similar hallmarks to the 'jousting' posture, but has significant differences. First, the orientation is head down when a male is courting a female. Second, the fins are not held erect constantly, but they are 'flashed' - dorsal and anal fins will be 'flicked' into the erect position, then relaxed again, in the blink of an eye. This will be repeated is staccato bursts as the male pursues his 'chat up line' with the female. Additionally, this behaviour usually takes place not in open water as does 'jousting' between males, but amid the seclusion of some bushy foliage. If all goes well, after a truly madcap chase sequence which will see several males pursue a ripe female, some of the males will break off for more 'jousting' with each other, leaving one to court the female, and if she accepts his advances, the next thing you will see is the pair side by side in the foliage. There will be a brief shimmering of bodies, followed by a truly explosive-looking parting of the pair - they will look as if someone's separated them using an explosive charge, the parting will be that violent! At this point, a nice shower of eggs and sperm are released. With a nice, large, well conditioned female and a collection of males to fertilise the eggs, this can continue for up to 4 hours or so, during which over 300 eggs can be laid. What is more, if conditions are to their liking, they WILL spawn in a community aquarium, as mine did about once a month on average once they matured.

Oh,a nd if you wish to encourage them to spawn, a well documented spawning stimulus for the species is exposure to morning sunshine. Let the first rays of the sun strike the aquarium, and well-conditioned Lemons will begin spawning activity in fairly short order. This may work with some other Tetras too, but it's a particularly well documented way of persuading Lemons to spawn after they've been conditioned up with live food.

So, if you're running with Lemons in your aquarium, there's plenty to look out for of interest.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Calilasseia, you cease to amaze me with your knowledge. So I THOUGHT step 2 was going to over when I received my shipping email. I was very exited when I saw UPS pull up and drop off a package. I took the pakage and opened it up. It looked quite nice (The box that is). Once I open my jaw dropped..
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1009.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1008.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1010.jpg
Do NOT but Hagens artificial DW. I regret it. So Does anyone have any Ideas on Wood or Rocks. I might just have to get Rocks from my backyard, but I really Like DW... Any Ideas? Thanks.

Chris

I would get some real driftwood. I like Malaysian DW...Drs F and S sells it, but I'd order a piece bigger than you need because the last time I ordered some the piece was tiny!

You can also get real driftwood on ebay...just search for it.

I have a kind of blurry picture of 4 of my harlies together:

Its hard to get a good picture of them, since they are constantly moving. The Harlies occupy the top portion of the tank usually. I don't know about Lemons, I'd guess they'd be middle-top maybe. Neons tend to stay near the bottom...where your cories and rams will be, so I suggest going with the Harlies over the neons, just for that reason. Then you'd have some type of fish is each level.

I just love their intense red color...I think they are beautiful and like them much more than my neons (which I find quite boring)...

*Kristin*

It does not look too bad. If your concerned about other people saying "Oh! you got fake driftwood!" then dont be. Most people would not even notice. But if your someone that cares because "You" would know its fake, then yes get real DW. IMO it will be hard to tell once you get some plants in there.

"Talk is cheap. Action can be almost as affordable"

Hmmm... Well I already have some real DW which looks really good but it just is making the color of the water nasty! I have decided to keep the DW so thats not a problem any more except for the tanin release which will hopefully die down. That fake driftwood was the biggest they had, its not because I dislike fake stuff. So the only problem I have is whether to get Neons or Harlies... Tough Decision. I although I thought Neons were top feeders. Any Prusuading(sp) words on what to get? Thanks.

Chris

Hi again. I was looking over all the posts here and I think that based on your past posts you really want the harlies. So go with them. Like I said before, you are the one who gets to look at them everyday. Don't let us sway you. As long as there is no very good reason not to, drop the Lemons and go with the Harlequins. I think you will be happier!

"Talk is cheap. Action can be almost as affordable"