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Hello,
Sorry this thread is going so slow but I have still not gotten my Gouramis yet... for a reason. I am considering a pair of Kribs instead of Gouramis. Do you think they will breed happily with 2 Rams and 8 Harlies? Thanks.

BTW: Post 100 for this Thread!

Chris

Hello everyone,

I don`t know much about cichlids from personal experience, but knowing breeding habits I dare say that the parents may get somewhat protective during this period. How it applies to the Kribs I`m not too sure, they are suppossed to be peacefull by cichlid standards, but then again that is not too reassuring.

Rams are also quite feisty but I think you have the most peaceful type. Then again I`ve seen cichlids species get along with each other just fine. On the Harleys well, they are fast fish that look for support in numbers so they may not be to easy of a dish for the Kribs.

If the tank is not too crowded and if each different species has its well defined living area or territory with plenty of hidding places and they are well spread out, that would relieve tension and avoid comfrontation amongst them.

Again I`m no expert on cichlids, just my two cents. If anyone thinks otherwise please set me straight.

Its always good to take your time on decisions like these and to use up that time researching as much as possible on the matter at hand.

All the best,

James

I dont think I would have two breeding pairs of dwarf cichlids in that tank. I have a pair of bolivians and a pair of blues in my 55 and they dont even like that. They dont hurt each other but they do chase each other away from thier territories. I wouldnt chance it since a 29 gallon is significantly smaller than a 55. I say stick with the gouramis.

I agree with Platy. I don't think there's room in a 29g for both pairs to establish territories. Also, I've heard Kribs in particular can be nasty when breeding. I'd stick to just the one pair of cichlids.

*Kristin*

Yeah, It was a pretty dumb question. It was pretty obvious. Never mind. So I am just waiting for a chance to get those Gouramis. Thanks.

Chris

*Sigh* I lost my last ram and another Harlie. I have no clue the tank seemed to be stable. I lost them to what looks like pop-eye although thats not fatal. So... nothing has happened. Hopefully this weekend I will get the rest of the fish which include...
3 Harlies
2 Rams
3 Gouramis

Thanks.

Chris

Garofoli,

I still suggest you find out what it going on with the fish you are getting or the tank before you get anymore fish. I dont understand why you keep loosing fish.

This is the first loss for several weeks and they were within the same day. It is very strange.

Chris

Hello everyone,
Sorry I have not replied in like forever but I have not yet been to the fish store since last losing fish. I have just recently went and fufilled my stocking list completely. As of now, I have...
2 Rams (Paired)
3 Dwarf Gouramis (2f/1m)
8 Harlies
6 Leopard Cories

My tank looks very nice, I will try to post pictures. I really hope everyone lives this time through. Thanks.

Chris

Grim News... I have lost a catfish (No clue why, they seemed stable), a ram, my male gourami and all four of the new Harlies!!! I might... I don't know what to do! I am thinking to just breed one type of fish, maybe Guppies (For Show, Not fo' sho ). Any Ideas?

Chris

Have you figured out why you keep loosing all these fish yet? It seems to be a big problem. What are your water parameters. How long has this tank been setup. Seems like over the course of this log you have lost ALOT of fish. Wonder what could be the problem?

OMG I am losing fish left and right. I have lost two cories and my last ram! HELP ME! My params are fine. What's killing them?

Chris

What are your parameters exactly? That would definately help us find out what is wrong.

My params are...
PH: 7.4
NitAte: 5ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm

I have no clue what is going on! I am becoming very frusturated! How can I tell if I am feeding them too little? That might be the reason. Thanks.

Chris

What is your nitrIte level? How often do you do water changes and how much?

How often and what are you feeding them?

*Kristin*

From browsing through your thread I get the impression that you are adding a lot of fish at one time. Try adding just a school of cories and wait a week or 2 and see how they do. Then buy your school of tetras and wait and so on. If any of the fish are dying or acting strange do a water change. It is the best thing you can do in a situation like that.

Good luck.

Im going through a similar thing, im having a mini cycle and I lost a ram the other night. Since then i have done two water changes and im keeping my nitrates down. But its sounds like an overwhelm of the bioload to me also. Sorry to say. Patience is a virtue in this hobby.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

It must be the bio-loads inability to handle such a great amount of fish. Anyways I think I will switch over to ottos instead of cories. Thanks for now.

Chris

IMO, I wouldn't do ottos, they can be much more sinsitive than cories. With your problem of losing fish, I wouldn't do it .


~Morgan~

I respect your opinion but I think that I could handle Ottos if I managed my bioload. Can you please tell me how many ottos to add to the current stocking list and in what order and intervals to add the fish. Thanks.

2 Rams
8 Harlies
3 Gouramis (2f/1m)
X Ottos

EDIT: I just had a great Idea! Maybe get 1 pleco(Bristle? IDK what kind) instead of the ottos.

Chris

I would add the Bristlenose Pleco & Gouramis week 1 after the cycled tank. Week 3 I would add 4 Harlies. Week 5 I would add 4 more Harlies. Week 8 i would add the rams. I have found rams to be extremly sensitive to water params. So keep them in check. Do frequent water changes for the first 2 weeks after adding new fish to keep the params down and stable. This is just my opinion

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Woops... I added everyone already. Oh well. I did one thing different, before I was stupid and changed the water after "acclimating" the fish and then questioned their death. This time I changed the water first and now they seem great! The Params are great...

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
Ph: 6.8

Stocking List:
2 Rams
3 Gouramis (2f/1m)
8 Harlies
1 BN Pleco

Chris

Pictures...

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1547.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1548.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1549.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1550.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1551.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1552.jpg

Chris

I see that your pH was 7.4 before and now is 6.8. Swings in pH will usually affect fish negatively and can sometimes cause death, especially to Rams which IME don't handle stress well.

Are you lowering it on purpose or is did it just happen to drop a bit? Keep an eye on it to see if its changing alot. That could be the cause of your fish deaths.

edit: I see that was only a couple days ago that it was 7.4 so it could be that your tap water is just lower than the tank water. Maybe changing the water after you added them killed them, because of the pH swing. Just a theory....

*Kristin*

UPDATE:

My params are...
Nitrate: 10ppm
Ammonia: 0ppm
Ph: 7.0

My stocking list is...
2 Rams
1 BN pleco
6 Harlies (supposed to be 8, 1 died the other is missing)
3 Gouramis (2f/1m)

My male ram's pelvic fins are clamped and my male gourami is very "depressed" he is very inactive and often rests on the ground.

Chris

So why did the harlie die? And where'd the other one disappear to?

Chances are it was eaten, and mostlikely it died first.

Your nitrate's doubled in 3 days. That's not normal. You have a problem in that tank and if you do not slow down you are never going to figure it out. But hey, what do any of us know?

Listen! Do you smell that?

I have no clue as to why either of the Harlies died/disappeared. And doubling from 5 to 10 is nothing. Doubling from 40 to 80 then theres a problem.

Chris

Garfoli...we have told you take it slow with your stocking....you say there is a problem but your the one causing it...you went out and bought all those fish after we gave you the advice not to. You knew it wasnt a good decision but you did it anyway. Anyway I know that sounds harsh but just try to calm down on the fish lol

Anyway...nitrates doubling isnt a good thing...even though it doesnt sound like much right now if it keeps doubling at the rate it is then there is a problem...and soon your nitrates will be way up.

First off... Like I said before, I used to acclimate the fish then immediately change the water. This time I changed the water before the acclimation. To be honest I think there is no problem with the Bioload at all. Adding the fish all at once should not have been a problem AT ALL. My tank has been cycled for the past... Year, maybe? And my nitrates *sigh* I am not always 100% precise. It's color coded for crying out loud! I am being victimized for no reason. I've talked to many LFS and they say I have done nothing wrong.

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest...

Chris

Garofoli...no one is victimizing you. We are just trying to help and you dont seem to be taking our advice at all. There obviously IS a problem becasue you have gone through more fish in the last few pages of this thread than I have owned in my life. No one is victimizing you...just trying to help...but when you dont take advice then it really shows that you dont care.

Like I said before, I used to acclimate the fish then immediately change the water. This time I changed the water before the acclimation.

That said. It proves my point, I've learned my lessons.

Chris

Ok but how do you explain the fish you are still losing? All we are trying to do is help you. I am not trying to be mean...just trying to help.

Garofoli,

You made my point for me here, that I've tried to make to you in chat.

You changed the water before acclimitizing your fish.

In essence, you put a large number of fish into a tank with brand new water, that, even though you say it's been cycling for a year, you just said you CHANGED THE WATER. That means the water has not been in that tank for a year. Not even any part of that water is cycled.

I've tried to tell you before. In that water, before your fish can survive, much less prosper, or breed, or anything you seem to want them to do immediately, there must be bacteria cultures. Those bacteria cultures are going to get in that water one of three ways: from other fish, from bacteria culter STARTER solution, or from plants. And even from plants, it's not going to be enough.

The absolute BEST way to get that bacteria culture started in that tank is to get the cheapest, simplest fish you possibly can, such a school of zebra danios or white clouds (here they run about 76 cents each) and let them live in that tank for a few WEEKS before you add more fish.

At the risk of angering the mods, let me try all caps to get the point across.

IF THERE WAS NOT A PROBLEM YOUR FISH WOULD NOT KEEP DYING. You can say it's because you did a water change before or after or in the middle or you put your left leg in when you should have put your right leg out or because aliens abducted them all you want. But the fact of the matter is that there is one common denominator in the entire log of your tank: you. You and your impatience and stubborness.

You've been given the same advice from several beginners, amateurs, and experts on this forum: SLOW DOWN. Your LFS is, in my opinion, run by idiots if they're telling you that you're doing nothing wrong. Or else they are telling you, and you're just refusing to listen just like you're refusing to listen to everybody here. Just because what we're all saying isn't what you want to hear doesn't mean we're wrong.

When this batch of fish you have dies, I hope you'll actually stop, slow down, and listen to all of us. Because they are going to. You've lost two already. WHAT does that tell you?

I am ALMOST where I could go to the pet store, buy fish, and drop them into my 10 gallon tank right now, and they would live and prosper. Why? Because that tank is ALMOST prepared and ready for fish. When I say prepared and ready for fish, what do I mean? I'll tell you. And when, as I am sure they will, your fish die, these are the steps that YOU should take before you run back to your LFS and swap them out. Take the dead fish back. Get your store credit on file, but DO NOT GET MORE FISH. Stop. Go home. Take these steps as if it were a new aquarium. Empty the tank out completely, water, gravel, decorations, everything.

And how did I prepare my tank?

1. I washed the tank thoroughly with a solution of water and ammonia. One bucket of water with about 1/4 cup of ammonia. Took a rag, soaked it in the bucket, and washed down the inside of the tank.
2. Then I rinsed the tank out thoroughly with very hot tap water, using the sprayer on my sink, and then filling and dumping the tank.
3. I dried the tank using paper towels, and then let the tank air dry in a room away from my cat and dog, to keep pet dander out of it.
4. I took the dry, clean tank, and used a hair dryer to blow it out to make sure no dust or pet hairs were inside.
5. I then took all my gravel, decorations, air lines, heater, and undergravel filter and rinsed them thoroughly with very hot water. Not 5 or 10 seconds, but several minutes of rinsing and rubbing them under the hot water to make sure no dust, no sticky residue, nothing was present.
6. I assembled the UGF, placed it in the tank, and spread the gravel on top of it.
7. I filled the tank with half cold, half hot water, and treated it with aquarium water treatment. (this is the step YOU need to take. For my tank, I siphoned 5 gallons from my -established and safe- 55 gallon tank, and supplemented it with treated tap water)
8. I placed the water heater in the tank, and hooked up the air lines to the UGF, and plugged up the heater and the air pump.
9. I let the tank sit, with the filter, heater, and air pump running, for 24 hours (for a 10g. 72 for a 20, a week for a 29/30, etc.)
10. I am now CYCLING my tank and preparing it for fish. By cycling it I don't mean overloading it with fish and waiting to see if they live or die. I have my school of zebra danios in it (7) swimming around, making sure the bacteria cultures are established.

For your tank, with all the problems you've had, you need a school of danios, or maybe platies, in that tank for a VERY BARE MINIMUM of two weeks. WEEKS. NOT HOURS OR DAYS. And then you need to add your fish.

But, as everyone, EVERYONE, here has advised you and you've completely ignored, you need to add those fish, one fish TYPE at a time, at a bare minimum of one week apart. I know you've said you can't go to the LFS that often. That's a GOOD thing. Do not be impatient. Give it time. If you had been more patient to begin with, right now you would have an established tank with what you originally wanted, and not have had to take back so many dead fish.

Add a school of tetras after two weeks with the danios. Then two weeks later, add some harlies. Then two weeks later, add some tetras or some rasboras. Then two weeks later you can add your rams.

And if you follow this plan, I can 99.9% guarantee that you not only will have a beautiful tank, that you can enjoy, but that you will be taking no dead fish back to your LFS.

And on your other questions you've asked, about your rams pairing up, and such?

Remember that your LFS sells children fish. Imagine, if they were selling humans. Humans typically breed after age 17. Your LFS would be selling humans aged 12-15. YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM TIME. They are adolescents. They have to get used to their new home, and then they have to grow up.

-L

Listen! Do you smell that?

IF THERE WAS NOT A PROBLEM YOUR FISH WOULD NOT KEEP DYING

My fish are not dying this time, BECAUSE

Like I said before, I used to acclimate the fish then immediately change the water. This time I changed the water before the acclimation.



That said. It proves my point, I've learned my lessons.

So my problem now is that one of my female gourami's lower left quadrant of fins is brown and appears as it is "rotting." My params are fine yet again. What is the problem/symptom?

Chris

Hey Chris,
Fish keeping isn't for everyone. Maybe you should throw in the towel now, and take up another hobby! Something that doesn't have life or death in the balance.

Hi Garofoli, I have just re-read this whole thread and can't help but notice that you have been having issues in this tank for several months now, while I dont think that you have done yourself any favours with the rate at which you stock the tank, the stocking rate is oviously not the only thing that is causing your problems.

As a starting point for now I suggest you stop buying fish for a few weeks, go and buy some Primafix and Melafix and treat the tank, they are anti-bacterial and anti-fungal meds and they work best if used together the Melafix will also help speed-up the healing of wounds, once the tank has been treated and if there are no more losses for at least 2 weeks after treatment, you can probably start looking at stocking again.

I am no expert at medicating fish and wouldn't normally suggest that anyone medicate without a proper diagnosis, but I think you need to cover both bases here and do something to wipe out any nasty fungus or bacteria or both that may be in the tank at this stage in order to save the fish you have left.

Now to move on to discovering any underlying causes that may be affecting the tank, you will need to help us to help you, by that I mean give us ALL the details of the tank setup, include everything no matter how irrelivant it may seem, The more information you provide the better equiped we are to help you to find the answers that you seek.

Start with the tank size and dimentions, the filtration you are using and the media in that filtration along with the length of time the media has been in use, list all the hardscape in the tank and include whether it was bought from a LFS/aquarium supplier or if it came from another source like a harware/department store or your garden and what it is made from if known, also list all of the live plants you may have in the tank as some can be toxic to certain species fish, and don't forget to provide current water quality readings for as many parameters as you have the ability to measure, it may also help if you can provide the results of previous tests and the date/s at which you got those results.

Once all this information has been provided, we will all be able to make a start on finding a more permanant soloution to your problems.


GT

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Please everyone... Do any of you understand that No fish has died in the last two weeks?!?! It's not that hard to understand, and Mobeyjack... That hurt a lot.

Chris

Mobyjack....that is one thing you definately should not say to a fishkeeper.

Garofoli actually if you go up your thread you see just a few days ago you sadi some harlies were dead and dissappeared. So maybe you didnt explain that that was a while ago but ummm thats the reason we are saying all this is because you told us a few days ago you were losing fish.

I really dont think Mobyjack should have said that to you at all....your just trying to pass a little hurdle. I have been through them..we all have.

Even if it seems we are being hard on you it is just us trying to help...aside from what mobyjack wrote which was totally unacceptable

Sounds like your gourami has a bacterial infection or finrot....that why you need a qt tank to set up first to get rid of these problems before you put them in your main tank with your healthy fish.

I really hope you overcome all this and I really hope we can stay freinds here on FP

I'm probably going to get a lot of criticism for this but... Do I have room for a Red-Tailed Shark? Thanks.

Chris

with a 25 percent water change and a strong filter if it looks like you have room go for it and mobeyjack we want people to get into fishkeeping not give up your being mean chris never give up otherwise nothing will ever happen

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

MY RAMS LAID EGGS AND MY GOURAMIS ARE MATING!!! YAY!!!!

Chris

Thats great congrats!!! Any pics?

I would definately not add a red tailed shark to that tank because they have a huge bio load which your tank cant handle...and they get large....they will snack on your harlies.

Alright, no red tail shark. They don't really look cute at 6". The rams breeding isn't too big of a deal just this shows 2 things. 1) That my tank is stable and 2) I got to see them spawning. That was a first witnessed spawning, at around 11:00 last night. Pics to come later. About my gouramis, the male was "twisting" around the female like bettas do but there was no nest. I hope there isn't too much surface tension for a Bubblenest. Thanks.

PS: I told you my tank was fine this go around.

EDIT: Can I get a crowntail Betta?

Chris

Bettas and gouramis generally don't get along, so I wouldn't try it....especially since you have 3 gouramis.

*Kristin*

i have to agree with the bio laod it would be pushing it but i have a red tailed in with neons! they only chase no harm also i little frog! i dont know about others but mines a little angle

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

Wrong thread platy boy... Or so I think. Well the rams ate all of the eggs which didn't make sense because I thought I was feeding them enough. I know it was the rams... Oh well that's all for now. Thanks.

Chris

ICH! I have already started treatment after removing carbon filter. The fish affected are the rams and one harlie. Thanks.

Chris

UPDATE: The tank is now ich-ridden due to just adding salt. The damage was the male gourami and that is it. Although he did not suffer from ich, but an inflated stomach... Not Dropsy. Thanks.

Chris

... I see another egg tube.

Chris