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hey guys its been a while since i last came on the site. i just recently got a hold of a 30 gallon tank and was planning on doing a lot of work with rocks for making cave and something that resembles a trench. i was also planning on putting a decent amount of plants in the tank. i was looking around and found some sharks that seem pretty cool to have, but i want to have several types of aggressive fish that will grow to about 5". any ideas for what i could put in the tank?

Hi there,
well a 30g tank isnt very big for aggressive fish.
You could have a Rainbow or Red Tail black shark or albino of one of these, there is also a blue fin variety as well of the rainbow. Another option would be a flying fox.
These fish grow to 6", and would need a substantial amount of the tank space for themselves.

How about something like this:
1 Rainbow or RTBS
1 Male Firemouth Cichid
6-8 Buenos Aires Tetra or Bleeding Heart Tetra or Serpae Tetra or similar semi-aggressive tetra or Tiger Barb or similar semi-aggressive smaller barb.
1 Bristlenose Pleco



Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
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First of all, let's put on the brakes and cover the matter of what is meant by an 'aggressive' fish.

There are quite a few fishes that are tough and robust, but do not initiate conflict in the main. Medium sized Doradid catfishes and Moonlight Gouramis fit into this category. There are other fishes, however, that are prefectly ready to initiate conflict, and keeping these in such a manner that they don't wreak havoc in the aquarium is something of an art.

So, why are some fishes 'aggressive' in this sense?

There are two principal reasons for aggression of this kind amongst fishes, namely predation and territoriality. Fishes that have evolved to be dedicated predators on other fishes are 'aggressive'in the sense that they will eat unwisely chosen companions (and in some cases cannot be kept with any other fish because they will try to attack as food more or less anything that moves). Fishes that exhibit territorial behaviour, on the other hand, will not unduly molest other fishes that do not intrude into their chosen territory, unless of course those territorial fishes are also predatory. Some fishes fall into both camps - Parachromis dovii is a spectactularly large example of a fish that is both territorial from the standpoint of defending an area of 'real estate' for the business of raising a family, and predatory upon smaller fishes (which in the case of an adult dovii means anything under 10 inches will be swallowed whole!).

Now, the question here is which category of fish are you interested in?

If you're interested in territorial fishes, then a 30 gallon aquarium is going to limit your options considerably. You could, for example, turn the aquarium over to a pair of Neetroplus nematopus Cichlids, but if you do, they'll be the ONLY fishes you can keep in there because when they start breeding, they develop truly pyroclastic tempers and engage in 'search and destroy' missions to eliminate anything that they consider to be a potential threat to their eggs and fry. This is not a fish you take on board unless you are well prepared in advance for its extreme willingness to take on all comers (including Cichlids larger than itself!) and the most sensible way of keeping this fish is in a species aquarium where it will content itself with displaying its superb parental skills periodically. You COULD choose this fish, but then your 30 gallon would be stocked, full stop - NOTHING else could go in there unless you wanted to see the Neetroplus nematopus declare full-scale nuclear war upon it.

There are less extreme fishes you could choose, and here, you've got a choice of numerous Dwarf Cichlids that would fit the bill nicely, or more unusual ones such as the various Nanochromis species from West Africa (So_Very_Sneaky has had a LOT of fun with his Nanochromis transvestitus after I pointed him in their direction!), or if you're thinking Central American, one of the more unusual Thorichthys species could also fit the bill (but in the case of the Thorichthys, their size would mean that your 30 gallon was probably maxed out with just one breeding pair even though they're not demon berserkers like the Neetroplus nematopus). You could try something a little different in the form of Herotilapia multispinosa too, which would also reward diligent care with excellent parental skills.

If you're looking for something that isn't territorial, but has a bad reputation for other reasons (e.g., fin nipping), then you could run with Dwarf Puffers - but again, you would be looking at the aquarium becoming a species aquarium, because on the occasions that these fishes decide to dismantle another fish, they take no prisoners. You could also, if you're seriously masochistic, try Gambusia livebearers, which are well known for being nasty and bad tempered all the way back to the days when the first edition of the venerable Innes book was printed, as quite a few keepers found out when they made the mistake in those days of putting them in with fancy goldfish because their temperature ranges were wide enough to allow such an experiment. Another nasty, slyly aggressive fish that would go in your 30 (though again, probably on its own, or with something else similarly thuggish) is the Killifish Pachypanchax playfarii, which is tough and hardy, but capable of being vicious toward other fishes seemingly for no reason. It's also a rocket propelled jumper that you would need to keep well covered at all times, and has the unusual feature of having scales that stick out at an angle - in any other fish, this would be a symptom of dropsy, but with Pachypanchax playfairii it's a feature of the fish even when in tip top health, males being particularly given to exhibiting this odd trait. You could also try Skunk Botias (used to be called Botia horae when I had them as a teenager, now they've been renamed with the tongue-twisting monicker of Yasuhiotakia morleti), whose hardiness is utterly bomb proof, but which are noted for being seriously aggressive particularly as adults, and ideally kept well away from anything that can't withstand their attentions. If you're looking for something prettier than the Gambusias or the Skunk Botias, you could run with one of the smaller species of Sleeper Goby - Mogurnda mogurnda is an attractive one, but one that you don't keep with fishes small enough to eat!

Which brings me on to the predators. Dedicated piscivores you could choose include some interesting fishes - the Leaf Fish, Monocirrhus polyacanthus or one of its close relatives, would be an interesting test of your fishkeeping skills, not least because Nandids in this group are obligate piscivores, and must have live fishes to survive. Another dedicated predator you could try is Belonesox belizanus, the Pike Liverbearer, which well and truly lives up to its name both in appearance and habits. I've already mentioned the Sleeper Gobies, which are basically lurking predators that sit and wait for something to swim foolishly within range then engulf the hapless victim whole - some of these are, in addition, brackish fishes, which would have an impact upon any planting plans you might have for this aquarium, but if you're prepared to go out on a limb, they could prove surprisingly rewarding to keep. If you're really determined to keep something strange, you could try Thalassophryne amazonica, the Prehistoric Monster Fish, but I would advise you to approach that species with care because it is a specialised fish requiring a fair amount of skill on the part of the aquarist, though if you're prepared to provide it with its requirements (places to hide and lots of small fishes to eat being two important ones) then it could be a fish worth your looking at in more detail.

One fish I would advise even the most hardened oddball collector against acquiring, however, is Phago maculatus, the Pike Characin. I once wrote a piece about this fish entitled "The Nastiest Fish In The Aquarium" (that piece must be four years old now - I'll have to repost it sometime or submit it as an article), and if ever a fish could be said to be truly sadistic, this fish is it. It subjects its prey to the equivalent of a flaying alive before feasting upon it, it's modus operandi consisting of biting all the fins off the hapless victim to render it immobile, then taking chunks out of the immobilised victim at leisure. If presented with several feeder guppies, it will leave the shredded and mutilated bodies lying around waiting in agony to be finished off, and quite frankly I could not derive any pleasure whatsoever from that spectacle ... yes, Nature is red in tooth and claw, but there's something disturbing about a fish that not only subjects its prey to such an ordeal, but also appears to be smiling an evil smile whilst doing so ...

So, back to some of your ideas. Red Tailed Black Shark ... hmm, NOT one I'd consider for a 30. Not unless you were happy for it to be the sole occupant. It would make life very uncomfortable for quite a few other fishes in there, even some of the tough, robust ones (though a Raphael Catfish would be heavily armoured enough to go tell it to take a hike). Likewise Flying Foxes, Epalzeorhynchus kallopterus, are intimidating toward other fishes that they take a dislike to, and are capable of picking fights with surprising opponents. Size is also a factor with these fishes that make them much more suited to a 55 as a baseline setup, preferably a 75 to give any other fishes in there with them some peace. In fact, most of the Cyprinid fishes labelled 'Sharks' in the aquarium hobby are unlikely to be good choices for several reasons, bullying and large physical size being the two principal reasons for leaving them to a larger aquarium. While Bala Sharks may be more peaceful, their BIG disadvantage is that they reach 12 inches, are shoaling fishes that need to be in a group, and to house them properly you're looking at 200 gallons and up! Another fish, Luciosoma setigerum, known as the Apollo Shark, is also too big - 10 inches - and nasty to boot, which is a pity because it's an interesting Rasborine Cyprinid, but again a fish that needs something like 200 gallons to do it justice (a similar fish, Luciosoma pellegrini, falls into the same category - bad tempered and large).

So, among the fishes that would live in your 30 are:

Paradise Fish Macropodus opercularis - a Labyrinth Fish that is as tough as they come, but readily picks fights with certain other fishes, bullies smaller, weaker ones, and is a fin nipper;
Skunk Botia Yasuhiotakia morleti - probably the toughest of all the Loaches, but again, serious bullying in the wrong setting can make it a nightmare to keep with other fishes;
Playfair's Panchax pachypanchax playfairii - tough as old boots, but vicious toward weaker fishes and a notorious jumper;
Dwarf Puffer Fish Carinotetraodon travanicorus - small, insufferably cute as juveniles, but capable of dismantling hard shelled molluscs and crustaceans and with somewhat specialised requirements;
Amazonian Puffer Fish Colomesus asellus - again, a candidate for a species aquarium, though like the Dwarf Puffer, a 100% freshwater species, and again capable of inflicting horrific damage on other fishes;
Nanochromis Cichlids - fewer problems aggression wise than some Cichlids but still territorial, some have unusual water chemistry requirements (e.g., wild caught transvestitus), all are rare and difficult to obtain;
Thorichthys Cichlids - species other than Firemouths likely to be difficult to obtain, some may be more aggressive than Firemouths (though some are relatively mellow), probably expensive;
Neetroplus nematopus - Likely to be difficult to find, completely intolerant of other fishes when breeding except in very large aquaria, superb parents but horrifically aggressive toward anything considered a threat to eggs and fry;
Herotilapia multispinosa - considerably less aggressive than the demon Neetroplus, but still well capable of defending its eggs and fry, likely to be more easily available;
Buenos Aires Tetra - tough enough to be dither fish for Convict Cichlids, which is all you need to know about how well they'll survive the rough and tumble of a tank with territorial fishes in them ...
Pantodon buchholzi - if you want something different, try this surface dwelling predator and freshwater flying fish, but be prepared to keep it VERY well covered because of this!
Alestes longipinnis - African Longfin Characin, robust and probably nippy, probably a tight squeeze in a 30;
Exodon paradoxus - No account of aggressive fishes is complete without the Bucktooth Tetra, which will be a serious challenge to your fishkeeping skills despite its hardiness because of its aggression;
Leaf Fish Monocirrhus polyacanthus - This and the related Nandids Polycentrus schomburgki and Polycentropsis abbreivata will be interesting predatory challenges if you dare to take them up;
Mogurnda mogurda - interesting Australian Sleeper Goby, WILL eat any fish small enough to swallow whole, but prettily coloured and worth a look;
Pike Livebearer Belonesox belizanus - again a specialist predatory fish, obligate piscivore like the Nandids, MUST have life fishes, looks the part, otherwise hardy;
Prehistoric Monster Fish Thalassophryne amazonica - if you're prepared to go out on a limb and cater to its specialist needs, this is a quirky oddball for your collection, but I emphasise that it will need specialist care.

There you go, how about that for a list of possible choices?


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Hiya;

well even if I had anything to add, it'd be pointless after the previous well written/informative/enjoyable post.

Nicely done Calilasseia.

cheers

do you know online sites where i can buy fish from? i have to local pet stores that carry fish, but i hear that its better to purchase online. if you have any sites that are really good please list them for me.

What country are you in?


Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
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i live in the US

Drs Foster & Smith might be worth a try, though I'd ask around here among people who have used them to give you a clue as to whether or not their stock is of good provenance and survives the shipping well. Remember I'm on a different continent, so I only know these people from viewing their website.

Personally, I'd scout around and find a variety of stores that are not too difficult to travel to, and see if you can find a decent variety of well-maintained fishes in those before looking online. A fish is likely to survive a 40 minute car journey on your back seat better than overnight shipping across six states if the only stock available to supply you with your species request happens to be 1,000 miles away ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Check with your lfs (not chain stores) to see if they'll order for you. Aquabid is good, just look into a sellers feedback, email with any questions you might have.

I've found Cichlid-forum.com reviews to be a great source of information, for both online retailers and lfs.

I've ordered fish online many times, mostly with good luck. One of the biggest complaints you'll hear is the high cost of shipping.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is water at the bottom of the ocean

well heres the thing....i love the cichlids, and had two green serevums and they were amazing fish. unfortunately my brothers friend was throwing things in the tank when i had it set up and i had to pull out the cichlids and give them to my neighbor who has them now fully grown. they are beautiful fish. as far as the agression of the fish. i want to be able to house a couple different types of beautiful semi-agreesive fish. is there any ideas as how many kinds of fish i can have in the tank and how many of each?

im with so very sneaking a rainbow shark is a great add to any aquarium they are amazing fish there not in the peaceful group but they arent like oscar mean there mostly teretorial heres another upside they swin on there backs and on there sides and clean the plants if you did put them in with a neon of any other tetra it would chase them harmlessly if you get 2 you have a bigger chance of them nipping eachothers tail but 90 percent of the time they wont hurt anything there not realy demanding so they would go good with most cichlids.

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos

and lastly barbs would be good semi agresize fish i suggest the rosy barb and the tiger barbs(if you dont want angles.)

33 gallon 7 neon tetras-5 platys-3 bleeding heart tetras-2 corys-1 rainbow shark-2 L83 gibby plecos