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Hi Tigermom:

I can assure you that my SAE does not harrass other fish at all, the fish is very occupied with food and otherwise extremely nosy! No comparison to the CAE at all and also a very graceful and pretty fish. The first to show up at the front glass to greet onlookers.

just simply turn them off or do I need to blackout the tank..

You simply turn off the lights, that's what I am doing. I use timers for this, very convenient.

I will provide more info about the manzanita with the next post - it is a very beautiful and hard wood which makes a stunning display in aquaria although I have to admit that it is from CA. Nevertheless, it is very useful and the color is something different that adds this special touch. Tomorrow my plants will arrive, I am excited and will post pictures of the plants and about the condition they arrived in!

Claudia

Hi tigermom:

I got my Arizona Aquatic Gardens order today. The gist of it:

I have ordered from this retailer "twice": the first and the last time!!!

I am so pissed off, sorry for the strong words but after waiting for 1.5 weeks for plants, having left them with contact e-mail address and phone number I expect a bit of communication and customer service if 45% of the order can not be filled. I had ordered 11 different plants and received only 6. Unfortunately, all the plants I was really keen on were not included and they billed me for my complete order. I payed a lot of money for plants I could get from ly LFS for far less and in better condition. I will talk with my credit card company next week to dispute the entire transaction.

Shipping charges were higher than the few pathetic plants that I received. They request a minimum of $35 excluding shipment to even consider an order but apparently reserve the right to ship much less if the plants are not available. To make it even more exciting, they even managed to ship a plant that I had not ordered (instead, of course). They must have soil for brains

The C. balansae are size wise okay, what is the biggest bummer among the plants included is the Crinum calamistratum. I have never seen such a meager specimen before, the longest leaf is 4.5 inches and the outer leaves are already dead. The 'bunches' of stem plants do not deserve this term as they consist of very short (3 - 4 inches)and few stems. I sell trimmings to my LFS, believe me, if I would show up with something like this, they would ask me if I was joking!

My advice: aquariumplants.com, nice plants and generous quantity, good communication and extremely fast shipment. The AAG website might look interesting as they give the impression that they sell some not so common plants, but that is a hoax.

I am so dissappointed as I had planned to change the aquascape of my discus tank well ahead of time and now I can not do anything If road conditions permit I might drive to aquarium adventures 90 miles away .

Hey Claudia.

Thanks for the info on the SAE and siesta lighting. SAE will be on my list for algae control and I have started the lighting today.

Now on to AZGardensam so disappointed in them. Pissed is hardly the word I would of used , no excuse necessary. I am so sorry they didn't do right by you. They're seeming more and more like a hit and miss company. I cant believe they didn't provide some type of contact to you in regards to you order. How do they not even send the whole order and charge full price? Dispute away because they are so in the wrong.

The size of the plants was also small...that's so crazy. They have min. 35.00 and expensive shipping, a customer should only expect nice, quality, quantity, lush plants and a full order.

I have order from aquariumplants.com and communication was very good. They only reason I wasn't planing on ordering from them is because they had more common plants, and because I received an order of vals that were in poor condition. (but I actually just read last night that vals don't always ship that well anyway) but I think I'm going to have to deal. I'm also going to check out the swap and shop and trade sections in APC and Plantedtank because they usually have some good things.

Oh I also looked up some info on aquaticmagic and aquaspot. They both have similar hit and miss records. Apparently aquaticmagic has issues with some certificate that's needed to import plants which casues confiscation of the plants. They now offer the certificate but don't require a customer to buy them. Aquaspot does actually include them but have issue with there in state shippers or something. I have read that both company's will do right by the customers though especially aquaticmagic. Aquaspot seems to most of the time but there are times were customers are extremely dissatisfied.

Again I am sorry

Tigermom

This was recently started at plantedtank.com as well...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/56519-arizona-gardens-azgardens-com-liars.html

Thanks, tigermom

the threads on plantedtank.com fit nicely with my experience!

I will CALL AAG on Monday (when you read the web site you get the impression that they will try to avoid the phone, but it is even worse for e-mail!). I will let FP know how it goes. They might be good suppliers for 'plant packages', however, those contain only common plants. Keep in mind that they are also expensive.

Now I understand my LFS better who complains about nurseries sending the wrong plants, wrong quantities, etc. They just tried a new supplier and ordered Limnophila aromatica. One of the guys took me aside and showed me a bunch of unattractive plants. "Those are supposed to be L. aromatica?" Yes, they were but grown emersed. Now, to understand that this is not acceptable you have to know that while the submersed plant is stunningly beautiful, the emersed form is the absolute opposite (in an aquarium).

I just registered on APC to be able to access the sales/trades section. Wow, you have to act fast! There was a guy who had just posted Stargrass. Sold when I had finished registration! I should start selling my clippings online ... I just brought a giant E. bleheri with 'baby' to my LFS and have 3 more to go aside from what is te product of trimming.

I just wish that more people would be aware of AAG's business practice!

Aquaticmagic: He certainly has issues with import permits, however, he is an honest person and immediately refunds! The quantity of the moss was very small, though. I am still tempted to try again if I can not find needle leaf java fern and some flame moss otherwise.

Did you already receive your new tank, tigermom? Can't wait to see the first post about this set up!

huh I was heading out the door yesterday to pick up the tank and decided to call first just to make sure they had it in...nope. They assure me they'll have it in stock and its not there. At least I didn't spend an hour and a half driving up there for nothing. The women I spoke to told me to call tomorrow because they will be re-ordering and getting more in some time this up coming week.

I plan to go to a few LFS to pick up a few more pieces of wood and couple of rocks. Really I'm only waiting on the tank and stand, once that's here things can start to be put in motion. I figure while I wait I should get the wood and rocks to soak and scrub.


I think one thing that I keep getting worried about is the switch from one tank to another. The 50 is going were the 45 is now. Since I have fish in the 45 my plan was basically to take out all the current plants and wood. Drain half the water and remove the fish. Move the filters and heater over to the Rubbermaid bucket, then the rest of the water. Scoop out the Eco into some small buckets and then pull the tank out the spot. Put the 50 in its spot, put the old and new eco in and start the planting and placing. Is this doable with out to much of a spike or stress on the fish? I will be keep bio-spira on hand but I hope that by keeping the filters, water and eco from the 45 it shouldn't be to much of a problem. I hope for it all to last no longer than a few hours all together.

Ill update tomorrow on the tank and I'm going to try to get my camera working to take some pictures of the wood and rocks and the entire process as it goes. Maybe ill start a small log


tigermom

tigermom,

the AAG saga continues! I called today and spoke first with Matt, not very helpful is a nice way to put it ... and was called back by his supervisor a bit later who continued in the same style. Basically I was told that AAG reserves the right to do ... whatever they please as they cannot be asked to inform customers about the availability of plants. I took a very deep breath and explained that I understand if some plants are not available, however, 45% and one plant wrong is not acceptable.

In the end he promised to send me the missing plants except one he will not have on Friday ... I try to keep a positive attitude.

Hope you will get your tank soon but I don't understand: you already have a 45 G and upgrade to something not much bigger?

Happy New Year!

Gosh working with people who are not so nice and understanding can be a pain in the hiney to say the least. At least there going to send you the plants, hopefully they will be in good condition and plentiful. I had to take a small chuckle at you taking a deep breath and staying calm. Knowing how frustrating the whole situation can be, I probably would have taken a deep breath and started yelling. But doing that I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten the out come you got.

Yes, ha when I tell people I'm upgrading from a 45 gallon to a 50 they look at me like I'm crazy The dimensions of a 45 gallon is 36 x 13 x 24 and a 50 is a 36 x 18 x 20. With the 50 there is a lot more room for scaping as well as room for fish to swim depth wise. For me it seem like the fish don't have lots of room swimming wise and with plants and wood. They don't get the ability to swim in more open areas and such. My rainbow shark I feel even worse for because he is about 5 or so inches and with a six or so inch long tube he doesn't have much space accessing it. If I stick a tube in the length of the tank and leave space in the back to swim around to go through he doesn't have much accessibility. It might not seem like much gallon wise but space wise to me it seems like a lot more.

I called the store today and I have to go back in to order in person. They say they will have it Saturday though, which is good. Then I just have to order the plants and get going.

Tigermom

Catdancer, perhaps with the amount of trouble you're having, you should submit your complaints to the Better Business Bureau.. Or even use the threat of complaining to the BBB as motivation for them to make sure you're treated fairly.

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Well, I think it is better/more efficient to post my experience online so people get an idea what to expect if they order from AAG. The Internet is powerful and an online retailer should know about that - in fact, I suspect that the supervisor gave in because of the possibility that I might leave them with a damaging report of my experience. Why they want to ship on a Friday so I will have delicate plants by Monday is beyond me, though. Must have something to do with thinking .. I just did not want to argue about the shipment date as well.
I am still hopeful that I will get the plants that I ordered next week. However, I also got a good idea about the attitude of AAG regarding their responsibilities towards customers. To be told by an employee that they basically reserve the right to do as they please because they are backed up by the fine print on their web site, is nothing else but shocking and should be a firm warning to all prospective customers. (And give pause to those who recommend this company without explanation to newbies ...).

BBB also posts information about their complaints online and some people may be more likely to look there than a forum. I will admit, though, that it is a bigger threat if a business if BBB accredited to report them, because they could lose their accreditation. As I see now (the site was down last night when I posted) AAG already has an unsatisfactory report at BBB for no response sales practice and delivery issues. (See this page)

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Hi tigermom:

here is (hopefully) the Happy End to the AAG saga:

This morning at 8:00 am I received the second package with the missing plants except Heteranthera dubia which he had told me about. Saturday delivery, excellent.

This is what I got: plenty of heteranthera zosterifolia (to make up for heteranthera dubia), many leaves are mushy but I don't want to blame them too much as the leaves are delicate and damage easily. The plants remind me of a rice field in Asia. Limnophila aromatica: not too nice but this plant is polymorphic and I hope that it will turn into a beauty. Red foxtail: very nice! The bummer are the dwarf Lily plant as they shipped only the bulb instead of the plant (more expensive) and the telanthera reineckii which I had ordered and was billed for as XLG. The plants are very pale, slightly damaged and the regular size of what you get in stores (their bunched trimmings are on the short size with 4 inches). Altogether, a mixed bag but I am happy that I finally got the plants!

BTW, if you are still interested in flame moss - there is a nice bunch available at APC!

Claudia

Did you pick up your tank?