FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I apologize for the lack of updates these past few weeks - things have been hectic.

I've been working on giving the site a makeover. Please stop by and take a look if you get the time. Things are growing and changing and we have several new pages and projects in the works.

Linda Scott with PetSmart's Corp Communication department has been sending responses to individuals throughout the course of the week as result of letters and e.mails concerning the need for "Accuracy In Information". It is an interesting e.mail and will be posted in its entirety at www.noclownsinacube.net over the weekend. It was a thoughtful answer. Unfortunately it has created the need for additional help and assistance.

We are soliciting photos from hobbyists of tank reared specimens of certain species. here is what we are after:
•Clown Loach / Botia macracantha / Specimens in excess of 7"TL
•Tin Foil Barb / Barbus schwanenfeldi / Specimens in excess of 8"TL
•Green Terror / Aequidens rivulatus / Specimens in excess of 6" TL
•Midas Cichlid / Amphilophus citrinellus / Specimens in excess of 8" TL
•Oscar Varieties / Astronotus ocellatus / Specimens in excess of 10"
•Jack Dempsey / Cichlasoma octofasciatum / Specimens in excess of 6"

We will need to be able to visually verify the TL in the photos. And, information regarding tank size and age of fish would be very beneficial.

Our photo gallery link: http://www.noclownsinacube.net/gallery/index.php

We need the support of hobbyists to accomplish this. The conversation with retailers must remain an active one. Your help is appreciated. If you have any questions about our effort feel free to PM me.

If you are gifted with the camera and have the ability to visually document the TL of your fish, but don't have the specimens we listed above, visit our site. Click on the Retailer v. Reality link. Scroll through the list and find the fish with disparities between the retailers and the species information listed. If you have a species with a disparity of significance, take a photo of that species and upload the photos to our gallery.

In the case of your Cichlid species, drop a line to the Cichlid Room - here is the website. if you explain the reason you want the photos (i.e., to promote better and more responsible keeping of these fishes) I'm sure that some of the resident experts will point you in the right direction, or may even send you some image files that you can use.

There is at least one aquarist here with Tinfoil Barbs - though I think his species is different from schwanenfeldi, which is a 14 inch fish fully grown. Even so, his specimens are pretty big ones, and they're housed in a nice large aquarium. Look around the forums and do a search on "tinfoil barb" to see if you can find if he's posted any images here on the site, then send him a PM asking if you can use the images for the stated purpose. I think he'll oblige, but it's courteous to ask just in case.

I think you might be able to enlist the help of several keepers of these fishes here, but you might have to sit and wait a few days for the results to start coming through.

Oh, and you can always enlist the help of Fishbase in the statistics department.

You might also want to take a peek at Planet Catfish and gather some stats on some big catfishes that have a nasty habit of being sold inappropriately. Common Plecs are the bane of my life in this regard, because threads in these forums are full of references to them (indeed we've recently had one thread from a desperate fishkeeper who is looking after someone else's "disaster tanks" featuring a Common Plec in a 10 gallon - D'OH). Shouldn't be hard to get hold of a photo of a juggernaut specimen of one of those!

I once described the Common Plec to someone thusly:

This is a fish whose adult size is such that if I took one and hit you over the head with it, it would kill you.

Two feet of heavily armoured catfish is MASSIVELY inappropriate for most home aquaria, wouldn't you agree?

While you're at it, you can collect some information on the dreaded "Big Pims" - monster Pimelodid catfishes that have a habit of turning up in the shops occasionally. The most infamous being, of course, the Red Tailed Catfish, which in the wild grows big enough to tow a small boat ...

Pangasius catfishes should also be added to the list, because these have a habit of turning up in pet shops too, as cute 2 to 3 inch baby fishes ... and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of dealers who will tell you that these fishes reach three feet in length! Likewise, every now and again, Walking Catfishes turn up in the shops, and these are inappropriately huge fishes as well - plus, in Florida, they're banned!

Among the Cichlids, I'd also add Guapotes (Parachromis and Petenia species) to the list, because these are tank busters as well - Parachromis dovii is a 30 inch behemoth that needs a 300 gallon aquarium - and you can also add Arowanas to the list of fishes that should be 'special order' fishes for experienced aquarists with the huge aquaria to house them properly.

Meanwhile, there are some places I've seen on the web offering juvenile Arapaima for sale ... take a look here at the photo of one and see why this fish is NOT suitable for anything other than a large LAKE ... one Thai online fish dealer lists this alongside its Flowerhorns as being for sale (er, a seventeen foot long fish??? I'd need an aquarium the size of a B-52 bomber hangar for that!) You might like to chase this one up too ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks for all your help. Hobbyists coming together in a cooperative spirit supporting a worthwhile effort and shared concern produces results! Progress is being made. An update of details:

We have obviously been sending letters and e-mails. Turns out lots of them. They made it to the desks of the addressees and were routed to the DVM responsible for Quality Assurance.

We have spoken with Dr. Saint-Erne. We have exchanged e-mails. The topic of concern that is the common thread of the exchanges is Accuracy In Information as it relates to:

•Context of data provided. Point of applicability to the time continuum defined by the life of the particular fish.
•Point of Origin. Turns out that the data provided (South America, Africa…) was not intended as consumer data. Rather it is plan-o-gram data for use by store associates when stocking tanks. A bit confusing.
•Fish Size. The primary source to be utilized was provided nearly two weeks ago. PetSmart has suggested several secondary sources as well as asking for hobbyist input for additional resources.
•Stocking Guidelines. Currently the 1” per gallon rule. They will examine alternative methods.
•Tank Size. They recognize clarity of information issue. Currently defined by need at time of purchase. We are striving to achieve a size based upon authoritative resources that describe “typical size achieved in home aquaria”. A tough task.
•Additives. Some signage suggests a certain additive. The utility of which is questionable depending upon actual chemistry of source water and changes that may be occurring as a consequence of substrate of other décor.
•Care Guide water testing description.
•The Care Guides in general.

The discussions and correspondence have demonstrated the willingness of PETsMART to include hobbyists and customers in the process. It does not mean that every item people dislike or could argue with will be changed. Rather, the information will be provided in a fashion that is clear to the consumer and is clearly based on “authoritative resources”. We can ask for no better commitment than that.

We have more detail, and more detail will be posted over the weekend, than this for viewing and comment on our forum. We will select critical passages from additional correspondence exchanged. We will “extract” not “edit” any comments. At the same time the “extracts” will be provided with any commentary required to place them in context.

We do not wish to misrepresent or allow individuals to misconstrue the discussions that have occurred. At the same time we have no desire to present verbatim transcripts and copies. PetSmart does have competitive and confidentiality concerns. We will honor those very legitimate concerns. They have fish to sell. We have fish to buy. Open and honest discussions can be held only when the concerns of all parties are respected.

The discussions have only bolstered and reaffirmed our respect for PetSmart as a responsible retailer concerned with responsible husbandry and the humane and ethical treatment of animals.

ok. we have missed a few updates at this community. JP has been preoccupied with real life.

We are reviewing the final set of revised data from PETsMART. The effort is showing a tremendous improvement in many areas. not where we want everything yet--but getting there .

On another note. Round 2 is beginning. lol. As we examine information with other retailers some common problems seem to exist. Here is a letter recently mailed to PETCO. It once again address a very common theme--accuracy of information. We ask hobbyists to join us in sending letters and e.mails to discuss the importance of information and its relationship to the practice of Responsible Husbandry.
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1/31/07

Mr. Jim Myers
Chief Executive Officer
PETCO Animal Supplies, Inc.
9125 Rehco Road
San Diego, CA 92121

Dear Mr. Myers,
I am a fishkeeper. I have shopped your stores for many years. More recently I began to study the species-specific information contained in your Point-Of-Purchase Signage. Within the past several weeks I have also scrutinized the information provided at corporate web site.

During the 4th quarter of 2006 an organization of fishkeeping hobbyists was born. Our focus is to encourage retailers like PETCO to provide information that accurately describes the nature, origin, and characteristics of fish sold. We believe hobbyists will be able to more adequately practice responsible husbandry with better information. Responsible Husbandry. Humane Treatment. These are the two very simple and fundamental goals that underpin our effort. They are two simple goals that PETCO seemingly embraces as evidenced by the PETCO Foundation.

An interesting disparity exists between the Point-Of-Purchase Signage and On-Line information. In-store there is no mention of tank sizes required for the species sold. On-line tank size suggestions are made. The size of an aquarium is one of the most important elements required for the practice of responsible husbandry. The importance of tank size is obviously recognized. It is significant enough to publish on-line. It should be considered important enough to include with in-store advertising.

Some of the suggested tank sizes are interesting. The tank size suggested for the Tiger Barb at your site is 10-gallons. Many authoritative resources suggest something significantly larger. In fact “Aquarium Fish” by Schleiwen suggests a tank of at least 32”. The suggestion by one of your sources of fish information is significantly larger than the size advertised. There are other instances of this issue.

On-line descriptions of environments conducive to the species being sold are provided. “Hiding Spots” is a phrase utilized in many of the descriptions. The same phrase is used to describe a parameter for plant dwelling fish as with cave dwelling fish. Yet, the definition of hiding spot for each is radically different. Indeed, a “hiding spot” utilized by one will often be a “hiding spot” shunned by the other. based upon the information provided your customers may mistakenly believe they are providing a suitable environment for the fish purchased at PETCO when they are in actuality not meeting the needs of the species purchased at all.

Fish size. In-store and on-line information is sometimes contradictory. For example, the Hypostomus plecostomus is listed as a 4”-12” fish at one brick and mortar location. At another store it is listed as an 18" species. On-line it is a 24” fish. Only one can be correct. Other instances of this situation exist.

Jim, it is my hope that PETCO examines POP signage and on-line advertising to assure consistency and accuracy. Responsible Husbandry and Humane Treatment start at a store. Neither can be practiced by hobbyists without accurate information.

Respectfully,

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The e.mail method for PETCO is form based at their website. The link to this form is:

http://www.petco.com/petco_Page_PC_c...-ftr-_-contact

e.mail or snail mail. please help us voice our concerns with your participation.

Thanks,
sully

ps. We have a topic in the public area of our message board that we are hoping for some input. It is a question concerning consistency of information being presented. We would love to know what you think about the subject.

http://www.noclownsinacube.net/forum...hp?topic=132.0