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Hi there,
Nice Forum ya's got here....
I was wondering if someone might be so kind as to ID this algae I've got for me and maybe give me the best way to get rid of it please?

29G
96w 6700k strip on a timer from 9am - 9pm
The pic is a little dark but the colors are acurate.


Hmmm.........can't get the image to display.

Thanks

GlitcH,

Hi, and welcome to FP

Well, I would identify your algae as two kinds, the one on the glass is Green Spot, which you can wipe off, and the other is some form of BBA.

It is nice that you mention the details of your tank, although you don't list them all. Given your light I assume the tank is planted, right? You have loads of light on this tank, over 3 watts per gallon for 12 hours each day. That is a massive invitation for algae if any other tank parameter is off. Do me a favor and answer the following questions:

- What kind of and how many fish are in the tank?
- What plants, and how many, maybe a full shot link would help too here?
- What is your water change routine, how much how often?
- What fertilizers do you add to the tank, when, how much?
- What substrate is in the tank (I see gravel, but maybe you have Laterite in there as well)?

That should be enough to get us started,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Little Fish,
Thanks for responding so quickly!

Yes the tank is planted.......very lightly but planted nonetheless.
Lets see if i can answer your questions.

- What kind of and how many fish are in the tank?
20 neons
2 otos
1 sae
2 chocolate gouramis
3 honey gold flame gouramis
2 cherry barbs
- What plants, and how many, maybe a full shot link would help too here?
I don't know the kinds of plants but here is a wide shot.

There are just four plants.
- What is your water change routine, how much how often?
I do a WC weekly.....about 1/3 to 1/2.
- What fertilizers do you add to the tank, when, how much?
I use florish trace 10ml twice a week and florish excel 5ml every other day.
- What substrate is in the tank (I see gravel, but maybe you have Laterite in there as well)?
I don't know what laterite is......but the gravel is a mix of a few things......some white stone from the pet store.
Got that years ago along with some crushed gravel.
I know I shouldn't have the crushed gravel in there.......I use to have ciclids in the tank. When I got rid of them I never changed the substrate.
Also, my PH is high for a tropical tank...cuz of the coral I guess.....it's 7.8

Thanks again for your help LF.

GlitcH,

Ok, this is enough information to make an educated guess what causes your algae problem:

Fishload and lights together, minus all other things that can help avoiding algae.

Your fish produce loads of ammonia and even phosphates. Your plant mass is low and incapable of sucking up all that "output". Your light is so much that even in a fully planted tank you would have to add CO2 (like DIY or pressurized, or loads of Excel) to make proper use of it. Algae, the opportunist, is always present, but in absence of nutrients, or light, or presence of too many plants will not be able to flourish. In your tank, algae has a field day - loads of light and no competition from plants for the goodies.

I guess that should clear it, but keep asking if I don't make any sense

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,
I've got a shippment of plants coming in.....alot of plants.
Adding everything I have coming in would probably qualify my tank as "fully planted".
This shippment was ment for a new 92G that I am setting up.
BUT...the 92G is taking longer than I had expected to get going.(probably another two weeks min)
If I go ahead and put these new plants in the 29G, am I assured an algae problem in the 92G when I transfer them?

I don't know what to do.....the plants are expected in tomorrow.

On the plus side, I assume that with the new plants I should have (at least) less algae in the 29G according to what you've told me.

Also, how much excel is to much?

Here is a list of the plants due in tomorrow.
Marsilea minuta Glossostigma Crypt ciliata Crypt beckettii Echinodorous tennellus Thin-Leaf
Alternathera sp.
Lysimachia nummularis
Corkscrew vals Contortionist vals
Microsorium pteropus (Java fern)
Vesicularia dubyana (java moss)
Rotala indica (red leaf var.)

GlitcH,

Before you add these plants into the tank, remove all visible algae, even if you have to take some gravel out.

Seems like a big load, as long as there is more than one stem per plant ( - just a joke).

Secondly, reduce the lighting period to 11h, or even 10h.

Excel, add the recommended dosage every day. And start thinking about CO2 injection, if you have time.

Now we have to talk about fertilizers as all you seem to add so far seems to be micros. What do you know about macros and micros? Did you read any of our mega logs in the planted forum where we discuss tons of fertilizer issues?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

dont know much bout micros & macros......I'll check out the "mega logs".

Would I get the same affect if I add some gravel to the tank ......enough to cover the algae instead of removing it? (maybe some pool filter sand...or would that hurt the fish cuz it's so fine?)
Also, I've got algae on the plants in the tank now......what should I do about them?

I'll reduce the lighting to 10H.

As for the C02.....I've got a Milwaukee SMS122 pH Controller / MA957 Regulator Combo coming in soon.....and I've been putting off a trip to the packy......to get me a filled 10lb tank.

I'm gonna go become a premium member...I owe you bigtime for this advice!

GlitcH,

Would I get the same affect if I add some gravel to the tank - No, it would find its way back up eventually. You want as much of it gone as possible.

...maybe some pool filter sand - Noooo, it would fall throught the cracks of the gravle eventually and make your substrate a major problem zone.

I've got algae on the plants in the tank now......what should I do about them? - Depends on the amount of algae and the plants. Given that you pretty much have no plants in there, I would say throw out any one of the them that is heavily infested. Others that have individual leaves infested you can prune off these leaves. If you want to save heavily infested plants you can try to dip them for 2 minutes in a bleach solution (19 parts water, 1 part bleach), but some plants, like crypts, can't handle that too well and you may lose them in a while.

I'll reduce the lighting to 10H -

As for the C02.....I've got... - Excellent, was that intended for the big tank?

I'm gonna go become a premium member...I owe you bigtime for this advice! - That is great, there are many people here that know quite a bit more than I do. And I am sure one day I will have a question and you can answer it for me.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK......lil more background for ya.

The 29G.......is gonna be completely disasembled.
Gonna put everything I wanna keep.....in the 92G when I get that straight.
So.....I'm not worried about long term on the gravel situation. The 29G will be up no longer than 2 months for sure. So knowing that would you still recommend I stay away from the pool sand?

As for the C02.....I've got... - Excellent, was that intended for the big tank?
YEP!

The bleach thing sounds a bit extreme ......I think I'll toss the old plants.

And as for u gettin answers from me.......lol.....I hope so but don't hold your breath....I'm far from the knowledge you obviously have.

GlitcH,

"So knowing that would you still recommend I stay away from the pool sand?" - Oh yes, don't even think about it . How would you even go about adding the sand? You would have to drain the whole tank before adding sand in order to avoid a big mess. And 2 months is a long time.

"I'm far from the knowledge you obviously have." - Gee thanks, but I really don't know all that much, it just happens that you tabbed into a topic that I am familiar with. There are many other topics that I have no clue about and I am most certain in at least one of them you will know something.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,
I got the plants today. And last night I went against your recomendation and added the pool sand anyway.
I'm lazy like that......it was easier to add the sand than to pick out all the algae.

At first I thought I would just pull apart my python and use the gravel tube to pour the sand in....figuring that it would stop the water from clouding. Well it probably would have owrked if I had all night to do it.
I ended up just dumpin it in. The fish didnt seem to might much at all.....kinda seemed interested in what the heck was goin on.
I put in 1 bag....50lbs of pool sand.
So far so good .....everything seems to be great.
Even my ph is way down.......from 7.9 before the sand to 7.1 this morning.

Got a question bout flourish excel........I think I remember hearing that it kills some kinds of plants.
Anyone know which ones?

Here is the after shot...much nicer on the eyes


Attached Image:

Can't stop taking pictures!!

GlitcH,

Well, no doubt it looks very nice, that's what sand bottoms do .

But if you don't mind, let me bring up some points I would be concerned about right now, if it would be my tank:

- First of all, the plants that you received are all in the tank now (and can be seen in the picture)? That is not what I would have expected from a package for a 92G tank. It barely seems to fill the 29G.
- Do you have any idea what plants you have there? There are not too many plants that are happy in a sand environment. This may not be that much of an issue as the lower levels are still gravel, but soon it will become an issue.
- As I stated before, I believe that your sand will fall into the cracks of the gravel and create a dense environment for plant roots. Sans is inert and will not help the roots to feed on nutrients. Make sure you provide enough macros and micros in the water column.
- You may have created a time bomb with your topping of sand. Water trapped between the gravel cannot be returned into the water column anymore and will become poisenous (I forgot the real word for it, sorry). Eventually, pockets of it will be set free (falling sand into pockets) and may cause some issues (including fish death).
- When you clean your sand via vacuuming (and you have to make sure that the sand stays lose as otherwise it in itself will compact) you may encounter that some of it will be sucked up by the intake of the filter on the left. Is it possible to raise that intake a little?

And that is it. Hopefully I am all wrong, this is one of the cases where I wouldn't mind at all.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

- First of all, the plants that you received are all in the tank now (and can be seen in the picture)? That is not what I would have expected from a package for a 92G tank. It barely seems to fill the 29G.

LF I didn't buy a "package".....I just picked out some plants that I liked. I intend to add plants to the 92G until I am fully stocked.

- Do you have any idea what plants you have there? There are not too many plants that are happy in a sand environment. This may not be that much of an issue as the lower levels are still gravel, but soon it will become an issue.
This is what was in the shippment.
Marsilea minuta
Glossostigma
Crypt ciliata
Crypt beckettii
Echinodorous tennellus Thin-Leaf
Alternathera sp.
Lysimachia nummularis
Corkscrew vals
Contortionist vals
Microsorium pteropus (Java fern)
Vesicularia dubyana (java moss)
Rotala indica (red leaf var.)

- As I stated before, I believe that your sand will fall into the cracks of the gravel and create a dense environment for plant roots. Sans is inert and will not help the roots to feed on nutrients. Make sure you provide enough macros and micros in the water column.

I was going through your Mega Log .....wow......nice tank LF. I learned alot but damn.......I'm still reading. That my take me days to go through. Is there somewhere I can find a list of ideal levels of micros and macros for the planted tank?

- You may have created a time bomb with your topping of sand. Water trapped between the gravel cannot be returned into the water column anymore and will become poisenous (I forgot the real word for it, sorry). Eventually, pockets of it will be set free (falling sand into pockets) and may cause some issues (including fish death).

What do MTS eat? Would dropping a few of them in the sand help to lessen the chance of trapped water going bad?

- When you clean your sand via vacuuming (and you have to make sure that the sand stays lose as otherwise it in itself will compact) you may encounter that some of it will be sucked up by the intake of the filter on the left. Is it possible to raise that intake a little?

Ya I gotta raise it a bit but I have dug out a bit so even though it looks like it.....it is not even touching the sand.

I've been doing some research on Flourish Excel and it seems that most people agree that it will kill vals.
I have alot of vals in there and I am afraid now to dose excel.
Do you know of any other plants I have that don't like excel?
What do you think I should do?
No CO2 yet....still waiting on the damn regulator.

GlitcH

GlitcH,

Sorry, I thought you said you ordered a "package" for a large tank, that's why I was surprised that you could fit all in the small tank so easily (and still not be heavily planted).

About the sand and the plants you have, maybe it is worthwhile creating a new thread in the planted forum specifically to that point, like "these are the plants I have in this kind of substrate - is that ok/bad". I am no expert on long term plant growth in sand, I just know that most plants will not do well in it (I guess the Alternanthera, rotala, and tenellus are some of them).

Hey, great that you are going through my log, tetratech's and NowherMan6's logs are great sources of information as well.

Sources of right levels for macros / micros: Most of the people that frequent my log (and the logs of the people mentioned above) use Tom Barr's Estimative Index, EI. You can learn about this approach Here.

MTS and sand: Yes, they are good to keep the sand lose, but at the same time I would see an issue in your tank as they may open up one of these pockets. But I don't know enough about it to make an ultimate statement.

I don't know about Excel and Vals, I actually have not heard before that there should be an issue. Egeria Najas and Egeria Densa will for sure melt away when frequently dosed with Excel, but if I read that right then you don't have these.

Have to run to a meeting now, will be back in a few,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club