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Hey - long time. This place looks good.

So basically most my fish have died off in my 4 footer after it got a bit out of hand. even my long time pal sharky bought it. Had an insane snail fest and hair algae issues. But now the boys up and runnin and lookin better then ever!

So basically theres not much left - I've got about 6 harlequins, a cory and loach (who need some buddies) and 2 red eye tetra.

I'm now thinking 'amazon theme!' I've just purchased some big lumps of driftwood which look the business and have started to tan the water nicely. I'm gonna cover the tank with anubias as they seem to actually survive, and will hopefully suck up some of those nitrates. Plus i've got a bitchin filter on there.

To complete the look i'm thinking TIGER BABRS! and lots of 'em. maybe 15-20. Am I talking crazy or is that an ok amount for a 40-50gal? Plus a couple of cories and zebra loaches for the loners? They'll get along right?

What do ya reckon??

Cheers - Tone

Check it out- http://profile.myspace.com/bigtone85

ya I understand the tank going to the kapush as my 10gall did that about a year or so ago, it kinda just like "fell apart" so I understand, HEHE I like the amazon theme, I have "Kinda" amazon theme in my 29 gall....but for those kinds of fish, you might want to drop the amount of tiger barbs and maybe get some neon tetra/and or bolivan rams...just IMO though, HEHE, but thats because those are my fave! well what kind of loach do you have? horse face, zebra, tiger, coolie, skunk, clown I mean you name it, and they range from like 2 1/2 inch to like 1 foot so its really nice to know what kind and defiantly more cories as they like to shoal in groups of 6+
Like to know what you do, keep us updated

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

Well, besides the fact that tiger barbs, harlies and loaches are asian/ sumatran fish, not south american...


I think you can go one of two ways:

1.) Filld out the schools of what you have. How big is the tank? 40 or 50 gallons? Figure get the schools up to 13 or so harlies, 6 cories, 3 loaches (what kind are they?) and 8 red eyes. Keep up water changes.

2.) Take the fish you have to an LFS and start over with tiger barbs. 20 should do it. Remember, they get fairly big and thick for barbs, so their bio-load contribution is significantly higher than that of your average tetra or rasbora. Add a BN if you'd like, but do gravel vacs because they poop like mad.

---

Back in the saddle!

because they poop like mad.
you are not kidding!

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

Yeah the type of setup you're going for isn't amazonian, however it will still work with the decor you are putting in.

If i'm not mistaken the south asain biotype and the amazonian biotype are quite similar in terms of water chemistry and decor.

Doh!

Well you know what I mean! Same sort of chemistry and all that. Tigers and driftwood look so at home together! Anyway its a zebra loach, like i said! Which don't get too big which is why I got em in the first place

I believe its 40UKgal which is about 50US from my vague fuzzy memory. I wouldnt trade in my fish coz I know what will happen to them at my lfs. and I don't fancy getting more red eyes coz they are kinda ugly lookin

More harlequins could be ok, but always had my heart set on the barbs ya know?

My cory is a peppered one, which are also pretty ugly... so would maybe 5 pandas get on with him?

I do like the ram/neon suggestion...hmm. all these ideas!

But if I were to just throw 10 barbs in there & keep up the water changes all would be good right?

Cheers for the input fellas - Tone

Check it out- http://profile.myspace.com/bigtone85

If you're going to get Panda Corys, trade in the Peppered Cory (or give him to someone you know will provide a good home with some other Peppered Corys) and get a minimum of 8 Pandas. The reason? Pandas are amongst the most avowedly social of all Corys, and NEED decent numbers of their own kind. Take a cue from my Panda Fun Palace - it has 12 adults and more recently has acquired an extra two baby ones, and the resulting madcap frolics and slapstick comedy my Pandas provide is hilarious to behold!

Find a good home for the Red Eyes also, that'll free up some space for the 8 Pandas too.

Then, you can go with 12 Harlequins, and you might be able to get away with 10 Tiger Barbs.

Final stocking therefore;

12 Harlequins
10 Tiger Barbs
8 Panda Corys
1 Loach from the previous setup

Leave the Tiger Batbs till last when stocking.

That should give you something spectacular


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Cheers Cal, sounds good except there are further complications...

The snail problem I had, which I thought was sorted, is still ridiculous. I've been away for a week and I got home late last night, all I could see were dozens if not hundreds of Bloody Trumpet Snails! They are an absolute nightmare.

A few weeks ago I removed all the sand and sieved through it to get rid of the little blighters (thanks to the old ladys colinder) but apparently they are unstoppable! I've tried chemicals but that just turned the water blue and only knocked them out rather then killing them. I don't wanna do that again as I'm sure the fish didn't approve..

SO i've done some reading up, and it seems clown loaches love MTS - but they also get a foot long and you need 6 of them!! Which I can't really accomodate (can I?) and my zebra loach only ever shows interest in apple snails! useless!

SO HOW CAN I GET RID OF THEM ONCE AND FOR ALL??? (short of tearing it down?) Its getting out of hand again.

Ta - Tone

Check it out- http://profile.myspace.com/bigtone85

Another person who dislikes snails . After all the trouble i had to go through to actually get my trumpet snails, it pains me to think that someone wants to get rid of them. Honestly though if you actually see your trumpet snail during the day then something is causing there population to explode(like overfeeding) or there is something in the water that is bothering them(high nitrates perhaps). I never see mine during the day unless I start digging in the sand, they mostly come out after lights off. They are a great clean up crew and subtrate sifter.

Anyway, if you absolutely don't like them then cut back on the feeding. Make sure there is absoluting no extra food left in the tank and thier population will drop naturally.
Yo-yo loaches are great snailers also. You could try I couple of dwarf puffers, they may or may not nip the other fish though, sometimes you get a real nippy bunch of them but other times you get some that keep to themselves and do nothing but patrol for snails all day hard to predict.

Hope that helps a little.

Well then mate, give me your address and your more then welcome to them! I'm sure they'd survive the journey in nothing but an envelope, nothing else seems to kill em!

I don't mind a couple, I know they do a lot of good and eat dead things, but I just have way too many. Most of them are really tiny and just infest my driftwood. But there are some big ones to!

I really don't think I'm over feeding. I feed them once a day if they are lucky! Though I'm starting to think that the flake food could be part of the problem, the fish aren't too keen on it. So I'm starting to feed more bloodworm & shrimp coz they eat it all.

Water is it stands:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10ppm

Which is fine! And nitrates should lower even further when I fill it with annubias (which my lame lfs doesn't even stock anymore!)

OK soooo... I guess I'll just continue fishing them out/squishing until the population subsides?
If not I might try puffers as they seem ideal for my tank conditions(depending on temperment of course)

Ill just see how it goes for now.

Cheers everybody - Tone

Check it out- http://profile.myspace.com/bigtone85

Just because you feed once a day doesn't mean you aren't overfeeding. Some people manage to feed too much when they only feed every other day. My mom was good at that. Trumpet snails are one of the most beneficial critters you can have especially if you want a planted tank. They are also near impossible to get rid of if you don't want them. Loaches would help keep the population in check but the only true way to kill these guys off is to dose the tank with cupraminehttp://seachem.com/products/product_pages/Cupramine.html and leave it sit for about a month. More if you want to be doubly certain they are dead because these guys can seal themselves away in their shells and wait for the tank to be safe again. During this time you probably won't want to have any fish in the tank because the dying, rotting snails are going to create an ammonia spike and leaving fish exposed to copper that long doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Then I would run carbon(or purigen would be better) for 4 days, change it out, run for another 4days, then change it again and add fish. Purigen could be left for a week without changing it and would still effectively remove all copper. Carbon isn't as good so I would change it a couple times before ouncing the tank safe. I do that when setting up breeding tanks to make sure I didn't get any egg eating trumpet snails from plants, substrate, or driftwood taken from my planted tanks. I've added shrimp to tanks I've treated like that and there is no copper left behind at all using that method.

Dwarf puffers which are the only ones that could potentially get along with other fish cannot eat trumpet snails any better than loaches. The shells are too hard. Puffers also compete against other fish very poorly and if you ever add tiger barbs would likely either get nipped to death or starve from being unable to get any food before the tiger barbs. Puffers also rarely eat dry food and would require at least frozen food if not live to keep them happy. I only suggest puffers for a species tank setup specifically for them.

I'm sorry but I have to give a big thumbs down to the copper idea . A tank dosed with copper is never safe again, unless you break it down replace the silicon seals and add completely new decor. And if the tank is anything but glass then it will never house health inverts again.

I would also like to say that my dwarf puffers live pretty peacefully live my harlequins,blue danios, and golden wonder killies. Only every now and then do they nip the killies but the killies fight back. And though it is true that they can eat the adult snails, they sure can chow down on the small ones.

Tanks dosed with cupramine are safe again with just basic chemical filtration. It is a different form of copper that is much less likely to be left behind in the decorations or tank. I have added shrimp and other copper sensitive creatures to tanks treated with cupramine without even doing a water change. Just chemical filtration. I do not under any circumstances suggest things like pennies or most other copper medications partially for the reason that the copper is difficult to remove from the tank but to say you can never make a tank treated with copper safe again is completey inaccurate and a myth.

Dwarf puffers may be safe for years and then one day you find half their tankmates dead. Posts about that show up quite frequently on fish forums. I've also heard of DPs on the dwarf puffer forums injuring themselves trying to break open trumpet snails. I really do not suggest adding them to a community tank and especially one with tiger barbs. I also do not suggest feeding them trumpet snails.

Like I said, I'm just gonna keep on top of it for a few weeks and see what happens. Dwarf puffs sound like a bad idea... and snail eating fish are really only a last option. So don't panic.
I would never add any chemicals as I don't agree with them.

Thanks for your help, but I do know how to feed my fish...

- Tone

Check it out- http://profile.myspace.com/bigtone85

Of course, one possible way to go is to set up an entirely separate aquarium specifically for the maintenance of Dwarf Puffers of one sort or another (choosing your species carefully of course if you're not keen on migrating to a brackish aquarium in a hurry) and then use your current aquarium as a never ending supply of Puffer Fish food. Admittedly a couple of really tiny ones such as Carinotetraodon tranvanicorus would not make a significant dent in the numbers, but then with this scheme you want your snail population to be sustainable so that you have a permanent Puffer Fish food supply.

This page]http://www.dwarfpuffers.com/[/link] specialises in Dwarf Puffers. For feeding, go [link=here]http://www.dwarfpuffers.com/care1.htm[/link]. Specialist Puffer keepers will need to keep up a supply of snails for their Puffers - [link=go here for hints and tips on snail breeding, even though you think at the moment that your snail population is such that you will never need to cultivate snails!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

This talk of breeding snails for puffers has reminded me that snails(except nerite snails, and marine ones) dislike salt which is a big reason why brackish keepers need a seperate breeding tank. Of coarse dosing enough salt to kill the snails will kill just about as many things as the copper would. Removing it would be just as hard also .
I know that did not help any but I thought I would add it to this collection of information.

Staying with the south american theme, have you considered either Striped Raphael cats, or Banjo cats. Both are nocturnal, sand burrowing fish that will eat snails... Just a thought.

Im not even sure if its a south american tank! Its some sort of cross breed. Had a look at the raphael and banjo. Banjo is ugly, and the raphael is too big! Thanks though. Besides I don't want a fish that hides all day. And I cant imagine they'd be able to crack open a trumpet.. maybe i'm wrong. I've gone off the whole puffer thing.. I've got a spare 2 footer which would be ideal, but I got plans for shellies. Thanks for your input though Cal.

And after my weekends snail killing spree the tanks actually looking quite good, and when its planted it'll look the dogs danglers

I've even set up this powerhead/spraybar arrangement on a timer which goes off every 15 mins or so. The fish get overly excited when it turns on, guess they like the changing current or something. I recommmend it.

Cheers peeps - Tone

Check it out- http://profile.myspace.com/bigtone85