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I posted this in the getting started forum, but thought that I might try here as well. I appologise for the duplicate.

Hi,

I am getting back into the hobby after being out of it for quite a few years. I have a 46g tank and want to make a community tank. I wont have any live plants for now. I was wondering if I could put Silver Dollars, Clown loach, neon tetra or cardinal tetras, Denisoni Barbs, orange chromide cichlid, golden ram cichlid together. I named these chiclids becuase they are apparently peaceful. Is this a possible combination? can you put any cichlids with other community fish without the cichlids killing the other fish? I find cichlids' habbits interesting that is why I would like a couple, but would like a peaceful tank.

Thanks in advanced.

Hello there!

If you're looking for peaceful Cichlids, allow me to recommend two other species that have several major virtues, one being that they are probably the most peaceful Cichlids you will encounter, and another being that they remain a modest size.

First of all, there is the Flag Cichlid, Laetacara curviceps, which has long been known to be a well-behaved Cichlid even in a community setup. It also has the advantage of being relatively common in the hobby, and so you shouldn't have too many problems obtaining some. As a South American native, it will integrate easily with fishes that like soft, slightly acidic water such as the other species you've specified.

The second species I'm going to recommend is a West African dwarf Cichlid known as Anomalochromis thomasi, which has been a perennial favourite of mine, because again, it attains a modest maximum size as an adult, is peaceful in a community setup, and also boasts truly resplendent breeding colours. Being a West African riverine Cichlid, it also has the advantage of being well suited to integration with fishes requiring soft, slightly acidic water, as its native waters bear some (if not complete) similarity with Amazonian waters. The big disadvantage that this species has is its rarity in the hobby, though given its many virtues, this is a complete mystery to me! After all, we have here possibly one of the most pacifist Cichlids you could wish for, a hardy, dependable breeder, one that boasts glorious breeding colours, and is compatible with a wide range of fishes of relatively modest size. Why this fish isn't FAR more readily available is a mystery to me, given that it's probably the number one choice of Cichlid for a beginner, but such are the vicissitudes of the hobby.

My advice would be to choose just one Cichlid species, and stick with that, preferably one of the above two cited species, and if you can find specimens of Anomalochromis thomasi, then snap them up as fast as you can because you will not regret doing so once they start breeding! Even out of breeding dress they're attractive, though the Flag Cichlid probably has slightly the edge on non-breeding colours, and you'll find that these fishes settle into your aquarium very nicely indeed.

With respect to your other species choices, I've some bad news. "Silver Dollar" covers a fairly wide remit of fish species in the hobby, and you have to be very careful not to pick a species that's going to outgrow a 46 gallon tank. Under NO circumstances buy any Colossoma species, which are more usually sold as Pacus, but which sometimes slip through mis-labelled as "Silver Dollars" depending on species, because these fishes grow to be monsters - a fully grown Colossoma species won't physically fit in a 46 gallon tank regardless of whether there's any water in there or not, it's a food fish in its native waters that grows to be the size of a small tuna fish, and only the truly deranged would take one of these on unless they had a minimum of a 5,000 gallon tank to put it in! If you're looking at Silver Dollars, make sure that you choose a species that is correctly labelled taxonomically, and which is known to stay a resaonable size, otherwise, leave them at the dealer's.

Clown Loaches I would again advise strongly against, because whilst they grow slowly, they do eventually reach a large size. You can expect a well cared for Clown Loach to end up as a 12 inch fish in years to come, and you are far better advised to look for something much more appropriately sized for your bottom feeders. If you want loaches, there are other species choices that remain modestly sized, and which are much more likely to remain manageable in a 46 gallon tank. If you can find them, and you can afford the fairly hefty price tag for them, go for Pygmy Chain Loaches, which now rejoice in the wonderful taxonomic name of Yasuhiotakia sidthimunki, a tongue twister of a scientific name that will break your jaw if you try saying it quickly! These fishes remain a much more modest size, perform the same function as Clown Loaches (including devouring snails if you need that option), and are well worth the considerable expense if you're prepared to pay for them. They're a far better choice of loach for a small to medium sized aquarium, and now they're being bred in captivity, which means that the price should start to drop to more affordable levels in the near future.

Alternatively, you could consider running with Corydoras catfishes. In a 46 gallon, you could run 8 Corydoras sterbai, which will make a nice breeding group that will provide you with some financial return for your initial outlay further down the line. They're dependable breeders once they start breeding, produce decent numbers of fry, and they're also among the Corydoras species that are in demand. They won't be cheap to buy, but you'll be able to recoup the cost later by selling the offspring. If money is no object, you could go with Corydoras weitzmani, and because they're smaller than the sterbais, you could have 10 of those in a 46 gallon. Only trouble is, they are seriously expensive fish, but again, you'll recoup the outlay handsomely once they start breeding. If you fancy something less expensive, a good species to run with would be Corydoras metae - hardy, dependable, reasonably cheap, pretty common in the hobby and fun to watch. You could have 10 of those in your 46 gallon, and they'd provide you with lots of comedy frolics to watch that would keep you endlessly entertained!

Meanwhile, returning to your initial thoughts above, Denison's Barbs are another fish I would caution against. Again, they'll be fairly large when fully grown (6 inches), they are very active swimmers, and need to be in a shoal, consider six to be a minimum number to keep them happy. Sadly, a 46 gallon tank is a bit too small to do them justice. Plus, the price tag for these fishes here in the UK is horrendous, at the moment they're a rich man's fish here, and I suspect that they won't be cheap if you happen to be in the USA. If you're in Australia, expect the price to be astronomical, thanks to the Australian government's extremely strict policy on fish imports. You'll probably find, if dealer policy where you live is akin to that where I live, that Denison's Barbs are sold in pairs or groups only, and consequently, the outlay for these fish will melt your credit card with ease. If you want shoaling fishes, there are plenty of other choices that would be far less expensive, and which would provide a decent spectacle whilst remaining a more manageable size. A good choice here would be something like Rasbora borapetensis, which, if you can find it, would stay small, though large enough to live alongside the Cichlids I've cited above, and you could have a shoal of 12 of those, which would be far more affordable than the Denison's, would be much easier to manage size wise, and which would also provide you with a breeding opportunity later on if you wanted to try a more challenging egg-laying fish species.

On the other hand, if you fancy running with a rarity that's well worth tracking down, stays a small size, and you don't mind mounting a hunting expedition to find them, you could run with Barbus gelius, a small but delightful little Barb that again, should be much more commonly available than it is. You could have 12 of those too in a 46. A firecracker of a fish that you could try looking for, but be prepared to pay a lot for them, is Rasbora vaterifloris, which is a resplendent little jewel, but achingly difficult to track down. If hunting rarities appeals to you, another choice that would be good here would be the characoid fish Neolebias ansorgei, whose rainbow hues would dramatically liven up any aquarium, and again, in a 46 you'd have room for 12, which would make your aquarium a show stopper once they settled in. But, if you want this species, you're going to have all kinds of fun tracking it down, because this is another of those fishes that many dealers won't even know exists.

If you want something that's silvery and sparkly, but isn't going to cause size compatibility problems such as the Silver Dollars, try Diamond Tetras. Relatively easy to obtain, not too pricey, nice and hardy, and far prettier to look at once mature than Silver Dollars, I'd consider these to be a prime choice for your 46. And, if you run with them instead of Silver Dollars, you can think about having plants in the tank.

Returning to the Cichlids, I'd avoid Orange Chromides, because strictly speaking, to get the best out of them, they should be kept in mildly brackish water, and this raises all sorts of compatibility problems with other fishes. The Cichlids I've specified are much better choices, and once again, if you can actually find the hallowed Anomalochromis thomasi, snap them up, because if you do, you'll probably end up being a monopoly supplier in the future once they breed, and rake in some loot into the bargain!

Incidentally, if tracking down oddball dwarf Cichlids appeals to you, and you want something really odd, then try obtaining some specimens of Apistogramma angayuara. This is a "super dwarf" Cichlid that doesn't grow to be much bigger than a Neon Tetra! It was discovered as a species new to science in 2005 or thereabouts, and if you can find some, they'll be a conversation starter, but be prepared for them to exhibit maintenance quirks that limit your choices of tankmates. In short, this suggestion you should file under "experimental", and go for it only if you're brave, but, if you have the experience to run with this, it could prove surprisingly rewarding.

And now that I've turned your stocking list inside out, hopefully the above will provide some food for thought!

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Wow thank you very much for your post. You went above and beyond on what I expected to get from a post

I will take a look at your suggestions and see which one appeals to me. Thanks again!!

@Calilasseia:

Wow, quite the suggestion list there. I have not even heard of many of these dwarf Cichlids, and will have to keep my eyes open for them if they were to happen to appear at my LFS.

I'm assuming that, like other dwarf Cichlids, they will co-exist with small schooling fish like Cardinal Tetras? (sorry to hijack the thread)

Laetacara curviceps and Anomalochromis thomasi should co-exist with Cardinals, but I'd think twice about Neons because they're a bit too small. However, if you ever find any specimens of Apistogramma angayuara, they should co-exist with neons because they're not much bigger than Neons themselves when adult!

For dwarf Cichlids over 2 inches, Lemon Tetras would probably be a better choice of shoaling fish. One, they're big enough not to be eaten, whilst still small enough not to place excessive demands on space. Two, they're fast enough to avoid trouble if any of the dwarf Cichlids do decide to become fractious. Three, they'll occupy a different zone of the aquarium - when I had Lemons, they tended to gravitate toward the upper sections of the aquarium, whilst dwarf Cichlids tend to stay fairly close to the substrate.

Oh, by the way, if you want more oddities among the dwarf Cichlids, try the Genus Nannacara. These tend to reach about 2.5 inches SL, and usually integrate fairly well into a community setup provided the companions are reasonably sized and relatively active. However, be prepared for some fun and games when they start breeding. The Genus Nannacara is unusual among Cichlids in that the females tend to be dominant - once the male has fertilised the eggs, the female chases him away and assumes sole responsibility for brood care. If the male doesn't take the hint and depart quickly, the female is quite likely to kill him!

There are two species in this Genus I'm aware of - Nannacara taenia, the Lattice Dwarf Cichlid, has markings on the scales providing a 'lattice' appearance, but is otherwise fairly nondescript. Nannacara anomal, the Golden Dwarf Cichlid, on the other hand, is quite distinctive. Here's the male:



Here's the female in breeding dress:



Both species undergo radical changes in colouration during breeding, developing big black horizontal stripes where none existed before.

If you want an oddity among the dwarf Cichlids, and don't mind intervening fast to separate the male from the female after spawning, these could be for you.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002