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Hi there

I was lucky to receive a microworm culture and
wanted to make sure I have a good supply. Here's what I tried after bit of online checking.

1. Two clear sandwich size tupperware containers.
Punch 8 small holes into the tops for air.

2. Put one package of Instant Mashed Potato, 1 1/2
cups of water, 1/4 teaspoon of intant yeast into
chosen microwavable container. Zap 3 minutes.

3. Stir slightly then let cool till lukewarm.

4. Spread the potato into the 2 containers, covering the
bottom. I kept the sides fairly clear so it's higher
in the middle.

5. Add the culture on top. I spread it out a bit.

6. Added 1 eye-dropper of water and a pinch of fish food
to each for a bit of extra moisture and nutrient.

7. Store in a cool spot (not a COLD spot). I chose in
a drawer. My apt is very warm

Within 3-7 days I should be able to start harvesting worms.



Anyone done similar ? Does this sound ok ?
Has anyone ever shipped a culture to someone ? How ?

Thanks



The Amazon Nut...

Potato is one of the better culturing substrates, but it ferments very well.

Your substrate doesn't need to be deep, they only use the top 4mm or so anyway, so a whole packet of potato seems a bit much. How much is in a packet over there?

I've never bothered cooking my substrate (I use rolled oats/oatmeal), but if you do, put the yeast on the surface (they don't burrow to feed, they need the oxygen, so all mixing it through does is cause the substrate to ferment faster) afterwards once it is cool. You need to keep the yeast active and high temperatures aren't good. I suspect you've probably killed off the yeast you added to this batch. See how you go though, I could be wrong.

1/4 teaspoon is a bit much for first round feeding, because you are also dealing with all of the sugar in the substrate (think DIY CO2 system, same thing but smellier), so I'd use just a pinch to start until you have enough worms to warrant more.

Skip the fishfood, they don't need it and in all likelihood it'll go mouldy more quickly than the rest.

The water will be useful later on, but unlikely to need it in the first week. You want it to be reasonably firm as it will help cut down the fermentation and stinkiness.

When you want to harvest put on a lid with no holes, they'll climb up the sides looking for more O2 and it is much easier to scrape them off the side. Alternately, lay a paddlepop stick on the substrate and they'll crawl under it so you can just lift it off and swirl in the water.


If you have a decent starter culture, try a few different things. I have a friend who swears by crumbled weet bix and water with a pinch of years avery 2 days, I love my oats, another likes stale bread and skipping the yeast for quite some time. The only thing I'd strongly suggest against is split peas. I tried a few more substantial substrates a while back and this one was just too smelly to stomach.
Just touch the back of a spoon to one you already have and smear that small amount into a new box. They'll take longer to get up numbers (10 days or so) but you should be able to trial a few different culturing methods and find one that works for you

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Thanks Calla awesome tips
I may have some questions on that once I'm awake lol.

Before I made the new culture I got some with a q-tip off the side and my endler fry went berzerk !

What kind of worms would be good for adult rams and endlers ? White or grindal ?

The Amazon Nut...

I'll skip the fishfood next time
I didn't add sugar, should I ?

"Your substrate doesn't need to be deep, they only use the top 4mm or so anyway, so a whole packet of potato seems a bit much. How much is in a packet over there?"

90 grams per packet, I split it into 2 sandwich size tupperware containers. I'm eating the other packet right now LOL.

The mix is fairly firm right now, so just make sure it's moist but not wet for the first week, then add more water if needed later ?

Thanks again



The Amazon Nut...

No sugar You'll end up with a brewery! I meant the starchy carbohydrate sugars in whatever substrate you are using.

Yup, add more water as you go. The main way that I lose cultures is through them drying out, so try and aim for a firm substrate with a glossy shimmering coating (the wiggling worms).

For grindals and whites, I think you'll have better luck with the grindals. Nutritionally I believe they are similar (you can feed these guys fishfood, but they also quite like cat kibble and stale bread) but the grindals just seem to be simpler to keep going.

http://www.livefoodcultures.com/grindalworms.html



For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Thanks very much !

*phew* I didn't add sugar.

I checked them tonight, there were some worms on the sides, not 'heavily' infested yet but I'll bet the endler fry woulda went nuts. It looked like was going to get a little dry on top, I added about 4ml tankwater to keep the surface moist, then a very light couple pinches of instant yeast.

Thanks for the link, checking that right now

ps - few new photos in photobooth


The Amazon Nut...

Just finished reading that site, that's alot of bugs !

The Amazon Nut...

Luckily, a couple people locally have some of these various worms. I'm thinking of getting..

2 ounce can - California blackworms.
starter culture - grindal worms
1 can brine shrimp eggs - 90% hatch rate.

I've looked into another food sometime ago which might be an alternative to brine shrimp - golden pearls. Supposed to be good nutritional value and you don't have to culture them. For me, space is REALLY at a premium. Golden pearls aren't cheap though but it it's still good for the fry and if it reduces work and space needed by cultures it may be worth checking further into. I'm thinking if I have microworms and grindals and pearls I may not need brine shrimp ? I should get some anyway to learn how to hatch them. It's good to have options at least but it's all kind of overwhelming lol.



The Amazon Nut...

It depends, golden pearls are good IF the fish you have don't need the wiggle factor. If they just sink to the bottom with suspect glances from the fry then they are even more expensive.
If your fish don't need wiggle, go for it, though at that point you might want to look into fry formulas like Atison's and Tim Addis as well.

I'd try the brine shrimp if you can (assuming the can isn't one of those 2L super expensive ones) just to see. If you need it them you need it. A friend of mine who has the best success with hers uses marine salt, and hatches them in plastic beer cups under her lighting hood (next to the tubes, just for the heat), so it doesn't have to take up a lot of space. The thing with them, though, is if they don't hatch the fry go hungry so you need back ups anyway.


For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Excellent info Calla

Link for anyone following this.
Atison's Betta Starter, an Ocean Nutrition product.
To be used from day3 until the end of the first month.
(and not just for bettas)
http://ibcbettas.org/eshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5

The Addis google search turned up those Golden Pearls.
Is that the one you meant ?

http://www.ta-aquaculture.co.uk/

I did remember it had something to add a bit of wiggle factor it's the air pockets. I didn't know the micron size for the fry (5-50 micron) there's a mystery solved

Alot more options around then I thought !










The Amazon Nut...

Yes, that is the one. They have a granular food that goes from goldfish size all the way own to power. It is used by a lot of the killifish breeders out here and the betta breeders have had good success also.

There are an absolute heap of options, it is just a matter of hitting on a combination that works for you in terms of hassle and cost and works for the fish in terms of speed of growth and palatability.


For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Well thanks alot for helping me with this, I really appreciate it ! I may have more questions, lol.

Just checked on the microworms, they are doing great now ! LOTS on the sides. I think I can immediately start giving the endlers some treats !

The Amazon Nut...

What you might want to try, is cutting a large hole in the top of your container. The placing a piece of corse sponge in the hole. This will allow more air into the culture, and more so prevent any fruit flys or other bugs from contaminating your culture.

Personally, I take a much easier approach with my micro worms. I use only oatmeal and water. no yeast, and no other addatives, for the microworms anyway. I have had the same culture going now for over 10 years or more. I do add stuff to gut load the microworms to improve on the fish however. I put just a pinch of astaxantham powder into the culture. Turning the culture a light reddish or dark pinkish color. These additve improves the red colors of the fish that will eat them. And it does not hurt the culture in any way.

I "restart" my cultures once a month. In other words, I start a new culture from the oldest one, every month. I keep three cultures going at once, just in case one crashes, or I get other bugs in the culture. Basically, I keep each culture fully going for three months, then start a new one off the three month old culture. This gives that culture about a month to get growing very well, while I feed off the other cultures.

I have yet to use potatos, I might have to try that sometime and see how well it works. But personally, I never use yeast. I have compared growth rates and such with and without yeast, and have seen no difference with either. However, the yeast culture almost always went bad faster than the non-yeast culture did. This is why I don't care to use the yeast.

HTH.....

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

Thanks AcidRain

Gut-loading is also an interesting topic I'd like to learn more about. Can I gut load liquid vitamins ? Time frames on renewing the cultures are good too I was thinking, how long will these be good for and when do I rotate them ? I put the date I started them in my tank log to help keep track of things. Trying here !

This is a first for me, consider an ongoing experiment and keep the thoughts and notes coming

The Amazon Nut...

Question: What's the best way to ship microworms ? I'm going to try to see if I can trade starter cultures for walter-worms and grindals

The Amazon Nut...

Wow, I don't really know any hobbyists around here (and even though it's a highly populated area, there aren't any clubs local either). I wonder if we could put together some sort of FP live food culture exchange. Not sure what my mom would think of growing live foods, but if I didn't take up space in her fridge it'd probably be fine.

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Long time no see Superlion

I'll have to learn to ship locally first, but I'm all for it.

My 2 containers of microworms are in a small drawer

The Amazon Nut...

I can wait

Seeing as I don't have any live food cultures to start with, I would be happy to trade you something else to start off, like plant cuttings... I just ordered a few mosses/liverworts from aquaticmagic, plus I have a few stem plants I could spare if they're doing well. I always have spare java ferns and java moss, but those are so common I'd doubt you'd be interested...

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Curious on the plant order, but it's getting harder to send plants into Canada. Mosses can always be done as a 'sneaky add-in' inside a dollar store birthday card ROFL.

I traded one culture yesterday with a fish breeder friend in the area so now have brine shrimp eggs




The Amazon Nut...

I ordered their star moss, weeping moss, plagiomnium affine, and a fancy anubias... I got some mayaca (which I don't see much around here at least) and it has lasted about a week so far, don't know if it would travel well, though.

I also have quite a few MTS.

I had forgotten you were in Canada. Still interested in trading, just let me know about any restrictions to keep in mind.

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