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how many africans can i fit in a 3'*2'*2' with 36"*14"*18" sump (so aprox 340 l tank and 80 l in sump total 420L )

i was thiking

3 clown loaches
1 CAE
12 electric yellows
10 electric blues

The loaches and CAE definetly have to go in there the #of yellows and blues can vary.

Well, the tank is going to be much too small for clown loaches. They will get way too large to be confined in this small of an area.

As far as the cichlids go, I personally would not put any more than 6 of either the yellow's or blue's and this is going to be crowded. Definitely not room for both. If you go with 6 of either of these you should limit it to 1 male and the rest females. Even at this there is going to be aggression and fighting.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

This tank is about 90 gal, right?

You can add more than just 6 fish of only one species. you could add 6 of both easily in a 90 gal. I wouldn't add the loaches in that tank though. The length is not great enough for adult clowns, they would do okay as juveniles and they grow slowly. I would not worry about sexing them as it would be very difficult when dealing with juveniles at the store.

I apologize, I was looking at the 36" x 14" x 18" dimensions when I made my comment - however, your actual water volume is around 75 gallons, not 90 as stated above. It's not just the volume of water, but the overall dimensions. A longer tank is easier to set up barriers or territories.

Your tank can support more than 6 of the above cichlids volume wise, however I would try to arrange the rock work to establish several different territories that the more dominant fish can establish as separate areas to defend.

The other option and one that I don't personally advise would be to overstock to the point that the aggression is so dispursed as to not cause one or two fish to get the worst of it. This will mean more maintenance and upkeep on your part to keep the water in good condition, but it is an alternative.

Electric yellows are supposedly less aggressive than other African Cichlids, however I've found that my large electric yellow male is relentless at attacking any other males in the tank. Mine are maintained in a 55 gallon (which has a 48" length) and which I currently have 1 male with 2 females and around 8 or 9 (currently at 2" off-spring). My male eliminated the other male that I had.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

it think it is 90 gal

plus the additional water in the sump (posibly another 20)

in anycase the clowns are small (one is arond 6cm the other 2 are around 10-12cm.) the siamease alge eater is in there to eat algee and is currently around 10 cm.
how long does it take for them to grow? ive had em 2 years and the have only added on about 3-4cm


i have about 25-30 blue fry
and about 12 yellow fry

all arond 3-4cm

the plan is to (slowly and only once fully cycled) put them all in wait for them to colour up, sex them and sell the left overs.

someone told me a 5 gal per fish rule is pretty good for africans and given i have very strict water change regime(min 50%weekly) maintainence is not an issue

given the 5gal rule aprox 20 fish can go in

3 loaches
1 algee eater
(these guys are upgrading from a 4*18*18 no sump)

10 yellows (1 or 2 male, 8 or 9 female)
6 blues (1 male 5 female)

50kg of white rock should provide sufficent cover.

sound resonable?

I wouldn't advise the loaches, they'd probably wouldn't aprpeciate the level of agression from the other fish. And they prefer different water conditions to those that the african cichlids (and the same goes for the algea eater).

If you do have a strict water change regime, then you shouldn't really have any problems with algea anyway.

Another possible way to keep the algea down is to keep a large colony of it in the sump, this should take the nutrients out of the water column and prevent algea growth in the main tank.

algee in the sump hey? how do you do that?

the clowns and the algee eater already live in an african tank with similis, lombardoi and greshakis. they do well even coming up to feed with the rest of the fish at dinner time! few of the fish are silly enough to hassle them with that poision spike and all.

It's a common trick employed by SW aquarist, doesnt seem to have caught on in FW though.

Simply have a section of the sump with a light over it, put plenty of rocks/gravel/other stuff for algea to grow on and wait, or add the algea yourself.

In a nutshell.... for a 3ft..... I'd nix the loaches, 1/2 the number of yellows/blues you listed.

Great Like (good luck)

Enjoy the cichlids.... they *rock*



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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

Another way of keeping the nitrates down if you're running with a sump is to make it a vegetable filter. Fill it with plants that do well in hard, alkaline conditions, keep it lit 24/7, and any algae in your main aquarium will be starved of nutrients. Especially if you use a plant such as Hornwort in the sump. Then, you could use the sump to cultivate some live food organisms too to help keep your Cichids happy. An approach that is VERY popular in saltwater fishkeeping, but doesn't seem to have become anywhere near as much 'in vouge' in the freshwater world, probably because there are easier ways of achieving the end results nitrogen cycle wise in a freshwater setup.

the December 2001 issue of Practical Fishkeeping has an article on pages 50-52 - A Natural Cure For Algae - in which the use of floating plants and a vegetable filter in a sump are covered in detail. The article includes a number of observations culled from Ecology Of The Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad, which is fast becoming the definitive textbook on the subject. Fill a sump with Hornwort, Water Lettuce Pistia stratiotes and Amazon Frogbit and you would be well on the way to eliminating algae problems in the main aquarium - not least because when Amazon Frogbit is part of the setup, any algae present grows preferentially on the Amazon Frogbit's roots. Plus, if you have a filter crash, the plants will buy you time to rescue the fishes. The author of the article (Peter Bradley) describes in the article an incident in which a full Dennerle set-up aquarium in his office was without power for 48 hours over a weekend - the Phyllanthus fluitans floating plants went into overdrive and mopped up a lot of the ammonia that would have otherwise killed his fishes.

If you want, I can scan the article for you and mail the scans. You might like what you read. Oh, while the details of the vegetable filter in the article are based upon an Amazonian (soft, acidic) setup, you can adapt it readily for a Rift Lake setup (no peat, different plant species, though Hornwort will grow in just about any liquid that has water molecules in it )


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

that sound great!

can you suggest some plants for this set up?

also i dont realy want to invest in new substrate or buy co2 filters and fancy lights, ii'll need somthing fas growing unkillable that does well with no attension and little light.

Oh, Hornwort is pretty much indestructible - you'd have to go to some lengths to kill it off in water. Java Ferns would also prove to be robust, and for a floating plant, you could always try and get your hands on Water Hyacinth, because that's a pest in many parts of the world that chokes waterways to such an extent that it blocks shipping! That stuff will grow in just about any water you supply it with.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002