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considering you have a strong filter, and they're gonna get a new home when they get too big, I wouldn't be overly worried Besides the goldfish issue that we've all discussed, it sounds fine to me.

Last edited by smantzer at 05-Dec-2004 12:27

[font color="#800080"]25 litres is about 5 1/2 gallons...thats pretty small to be putting [bold]3[/bold] goldfish into. The commets are the ones I would worry about. They won't grow a few feet in that tank, but given the proper space they can. The fish in there will prolly stunt and die. I would deffently tell your friend to invest in a 55 gallon or so, and then when they are full grown (or are getting bigger) she should upgrade to a 100+ gallon or even better, a pond. Why don't you tell your freind to trade in the goldfish for a pretty betta? You can even put other fish in with the betta (but you have to watch what fish though). The betta would produce less waste, which means less water changes, and less work for your friend ^.^ Because I'm sure with the goldies in there if they are healthy and living fine she would be doing a few water changes a week...[/font]
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-Meg

My friend has 2 comets and a shubunkin in a 25 litre and they are perfecly fine, they are all healthy and living. 2 are about 10cm and 1 is about 5cm.

Not to be mean or anything, but the thing is, they may be fine and healthy right now, but eventually these fish will either be stunted, die, or grow to the size of the tank. So I hope your friend has plans to put them in a larger tank, or a pond in the near future. [/font]

Last edited by acidrain at 14-Dec-2004 15:30

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There is always a bigger fish...

My friend has 2 comets and a shubunkin in a 25 litre and they are perfecly fine, they are all healthy and living. 2 are about 10cm and 1 is about 5cm.

Actually, Fantail and Veiltail both refer to specific types; the Fantail is more or less the European/American Ryukin, lacking the steep forehead and often much longer in the body. One of the least "manipulated" of goldfish they easily pass 12". Veiltails these days are usually Philly Veils, often silver fish with extremely elongated finnage; their caudals are blocky and their bodies are short.

-Molly
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I think fantail goldfish are commonly either Orandas or Ryukin goldfish, both of which reach around 10 inches.
Fantail and Veiltail only really refers to the kind of tail the goldfish has. You would have to do some looking online to compare and find out what type of goldies you have.


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goldfish need a minimum of 30 gallons, not 10.

Will the fantails get really big? Or are they like the black moore, and won't get as big as the orandas?
I think I'll add atleast 1 more loach, and if they seem content with just each other I won't add any more, but if not I will.

As you said, if the goldfish get too big, you are going to rehome them. Thats fine. It depends really as well what type of fancy goldfish you have- some get much larger - like orandas, while others like the Black Moor stay a bit smaller than an oranda- probably around 7-8 inches as opposed to 10-12.
Anyway, in regards to the bottom feeder issue. I agree, you could add 2-4 more Green Corys if you want, and You could also add 1-3 more Weather Loaches. They really do love company. I had 2, added one more, and even that 1 more made them all so happy. One died, (she jumped out of the tank and recovered but i suspect internal injuries shortened her life to 6 months after), my 2 remaining weather loaches started hiding and seeming "depressed". I picked up a black weather loach as a replacement, and BOOM, they are all out piled up together and playing again. I think 3 or more would be the best number for these guys. And believe me, once they get big, they sure are an impressive creature!
You could easily have 4 in a 50g tank with 4 corys.
Mine all "pile up" one on top of the other facing different directions, super cute!

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Okay, thanks. I'll think about adding another loach. And sorry if I got anybody mad...its just that I always want to prove a point...even if I don't have one, lol.

I am in disagreement with many on this, as I overstock everything, but I also overfilter everything and do regular rather large water changes.

As long as you keep up on your water changes and keep the ammonia and nitrItes at 0, and keep the nitrAtes below 30, you should be fine. The nitrAtes is the end product of the cycle, or biological filter. This is like the pollution of a bacteria factory within your tank. This is the reason to do water changes, is to take out the nitrAtes, as they build up. IMO, as long as you watch your levels, you can add another loach. But, this is my opppinion.

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There is always a bigger fish...

Its a 50 gallon "fat & short". A wet/dry filter rated for a 100 gallon, no heater...lots of hiding places, normal sized gravel and fake plants.
The fish are:
5 goldfish (3 fantials, 1 vielail, 1 black moor)
6 longfinned danios
4 green corys
1 weather loach

I do a 25% water change every week.

If the goldfish grow too big for the tank I will find them a bigger pond/tank.

Can I add another another weather loach so he has a buddy?
-Meg

imagine five 10" balls in your tank, trying to get around each other. A little tight, right? And not exactly enough water to keep them safe and healthy.

I've said this a few times now, when they get that big they won't even be in my tank, because I'll give them away to somebody with a pond or a bigger tank.

I yes, I do agree with you, that just because they need a minimuim of 10 gallons each, you wouldn't keep 1 in a 10 gallon. I have done my research and have read on a lot of sites that the minimuim tank for a goldfish is 50 gallons, and then you give them 10 gallons a peice. I know the other fish in there take away some of that 10 gallons each from the goldfish, but not a whole lot.

What are nitrAtes suppost to be at? I cycled my tank (fishless cycled, took 7 weeks) and I had about 5 pmm but over the course of a few months it has gone down to 0. Is this bad?

P.S.
And when I asked "is my tank overstocked" I kind of meant for the danios and the bottom feeders, not the goldfish.

6 is usually the general rule for cories

You asked if it was overstocked, we said yes, and you're arguing?


Yes, it's overstocked. 10 gal is a minimum and IMO it's a far too low number. Think of it this way - minimum for a Neon is probably less than a gallon, but would you keep it in a gallon tank? No, of course not. Whether or not the minimum for goldfish is 10 gallons, that means 10 gallons within a sufficiently large tank.

Besides, the goldfish don't have 10 gallons each, since there are other fish in there. The goldfish have about 5 gallons each, actually, which is far far far far far too little.

I'm more or less with John; I think you could keep two in there, at least for a good while. Sorry, but big fish need big tanks. I realize it's a bit irritating when they're young, but imagine five 10" balls in your tank, trying to get around each other. A little tight, right? And not exactly enough water to keep them safe and healthy.


BTW - Ammonia and nitrite should ALWAYS be zero. It's great that yours are but that's normal. The number worth keeping an eye on is Nitrates with an a, since that corresponds pretty directly with how stocked the tank is.

Last edited by LittleMousling at 05-Dec-2004 11:08

-Molly
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Oh yah, at another board there was a big argument over how many should be in a school. Some people said 6 or more is best, but if you have atleast 3 it is fine, and I have 4 cories.

The whole point of the tank was to put "larger" fish in it, which is the goldfish. Goldfish need at the MINIMUIM 10 gallons each, and in the 50 gallon they have 10 gallons each. I can't just "give" them away...I don't think the stores will take fish back without a good reasen, and if I tell them that its overstocked with 5 goldfish, they would probably think I'm crazy and try to sell me more, LoL.
I know most people don't agree with keeping goldfish in tanks, but I think its perfectly fine.
They have lots of room to swim and the ammoina and nitrite have always been at 0. As I said before, if they grow too big for the tank I WILL find them a bigger home.

This is true, but Brochis catfish (different than cories) are happier in slightly lower temperatures than the average tropical fish. 74 degrees is a perfectly good temp, but they will still thrive at 72. As long as there are no extreme temperature swings between night and day (five degrees F or more), than the fish should be all right.

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Also how do u keep your tank at 72 without a heater. Cory are a tropical fish I believe they need much warmer water than goldies.

You can add another loach (preferably two, they do best in groups of three or more) and some other fish, if you get rid of some goldies. Like John said, they will eventually need another home, like a large tank or a pond. Goldfish are heavy waste producers, and they take up a lot of space. If there were no goldies in that tank, you could add a lot more fish.

After you move at least three goldies, you should add more bottom feeders. As I mentioned above, the loaches should be kept in groups of at least three. I recommend adding two. Then, you should add at least two more of the 'cories' (which are actually Brochis splendens), because they are shoaling fish. They are happiest in groups of six or more.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."