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i have a 29g planted tank with the following fish and are wondering if i am overstocking it. i want to add more amano/cherry red shrimps, like 8-12 more. so let me know what you guys think...

great filtration system
currently have ...

5 rummy nose
3 zebra danios (want to remove these guys)
1 SAE
8 otos
4 algae eating shrimps
4 amano shrimps
2 ghost shrimps
1 dwarf puffer (might remove also)

i know dwarf puffer might eat shrimps and nip fins. i know SAE needs schools, and i know 8 otos might be overkill for my tank but i bought 8 thinking they might die but all survived

plants ...
2 BIG crypt wendtii reds (probably about 15 individual plants in each) plus 2 small ones.
5 crypt balansaes
1 corkscrew vals
10 stems of cabomba
some dwarf hairgrass
big driftwood covered in java moss

those are the plants for now but i am waiting to see if the corkscrews will powerup enough to cover the background and might trash the crypt balansae. btw it is co2 injected

so anyways, the question is that will i be okay if added 8-12 more shrimps and maybe 7 cardinals and remove the zebras?

poor shot of the tank, just so you guys know how much plants are in there. also need help with scaping as you can see haha
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/greenfootball/IMG_0235.jpg

greenfootball .... I'd say you were getting close to your limit but your plan sounds ok to me ...a lot of folks get testy about overstocking tanks but in my experience your tank can handle more fish than you think .
The really important thing about stocking is when you get over an inch of fish per gal you need to make sure that you maintain the water quality and gravel cleanliness as well as keep your filters in tip top shape .

Assuming you do all that on a weekly or at least a fortnightly basis you will be fine .


Garry

thanks for the reply countryfish. also more questions came to my mind...

do shrimps use the 1 inch per gallon rule also? i know they have very very low bio load.

another question is that if i get the shrimps and the cardinals, will the shrimp colony get too crazy cuz then i'll have total of like 20ish shrimps in a 29 gallon

Mate ... your going to get lots of people telling you that the inch per gal rule is nonsense ... mainly because of the different impact between a neon and an angel vs a shrimp . Nothing like a science on stocking exists . IMHO the shrimp will self regulate ...ie if they breed too much they will die back ...


Garry

I wouldn't worry about the shrimp either. Once the puffer gets big enough you will find the shrimp disappearing.

the dwarf puffer only gets to 1" or so? that still a problem?

Yeah, they still fin nip fish and eat shrimp, even if they only take the eyes and limbs off. Pretty much whatever the size, puffers are still puffers. Them not eating bits of other fish and shrimp from the get-go is a behavioural disorder, not normal behaviour, often caused by monotypic feeding of fry, a habituation leaving them recognising only sertain types of food. That rectifies with time, ergo, they will probably get nippingat some point. Its an age old classic reoccurent arguement when people will go "mine never nip , theyre fine in community" perhaps rather naively, and then the others, myself included who have suffered deaths at the hands of even tiny dwarf puffers will say "dont do it, they will turn eventually".

Its one of those cyclical arguements where everyone thinks theyre right, but taken as an average, probably 85% or more of dwarf puffers correct their aberrant behaviour and take to being the predators they really are within 2-6 months, often the first time a fish injures itself in their presence and they smell the merest hint of blood. Puffers are pretty good at putting two and two together even if it takes months sometimes. Fact is, those with them in community are living on luck, theres no real secret or skill to it. Most turn nasty to tankmates in the end.

sounds horrible, i am gonna have to remove it soon then.

i see my zebras do more chasing around other fish than the puffer but yeah i guess its because the puffer is still tiny (less than 1/2 inch) i got the puffer originally to help keep MTS in check but now i dont really need it.

while on this topic, an american flagfish is crazy aggressive for the size they are... the one i had was only 1 inch in length and it nipped my adult german blue ram thats more than double its size for only 1 day until i removed the flagfish and the ram died the next day ...

Yeah , thats a pretty common experience of FFF's. Because many are quite temperature tolerant, and will eat algae, stupid LFS advice gets people to try them in with fancy goldfish, or in the cooler end of tropical aquaria with smaller defenseless fish and they do so, go away to work for the day, come back and find the shoal of FFF's have reduced their goldfish to an orange eyeless ball struggling for breath, and collectively de-finned or part definned whole small shoals of other fish.Nothing slow-witted, denseless, or big finned should go anywhere near a FFF, they can take on cichlids much the same size or a little larger than they are, after all a nip isnt a fight, its a mugging,a hit and run, and even a cichlid can only do something about it it seems them coming before the nip lands, or can chase them down, and if they can that wont do a FFF longevity any good.

FF's are very difficult to fit into communities of any type really. Some people luck out, some dont, its more luck of the draw than planning.