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  L# Selective breeding and inbreeding, some questions! :0
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SubscribeSelective breeding and inbreeding, some questions! :0
viciouschiapet
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Fish Addict
Posts: 651
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Registered: 25-Jan-2003
female usa
Dwarf Platys are different from regular platys. They're not just stunted adults. I remember seeing on another forum somewhere that someone posted an example of dwarf platys WITH regular platy fry that were about the same size. Sure they looked similar, but the dwarf platys had smaller eyes compared to the fry, clearly showing that they are not just baby platys. They were small adult proportioned fish. They don't have the enlarged head/short body of stunted fish. I have 6 of them and so far they are actually very healthy.

The thing with inbreeding to get dwarfs.. you would want a MUCH larger stock that you're gonna have. If you inbreed too much you get health defects and deformities. You have to keep introducing new gene pools to get healthy results. You know how diverse dog breeds are. They are definitely a long ways away from a wolf and are proof of how selective breeding can go, but inbreeding leads to undesireable traits. Chihuahuas have been inbred to the point of being neurotic, lots of large dogs get hip displaysia... my dog is a mutt but he has a luxating patella which is most often a congenital disease that he probably got from inbreeding in his family tree. Early breeders had to import dogs from other countries to keep the gene pool diverse.

Glofish... I don't get what's so horribly wrong with them. I know some people think genetically modifying things is wrong, but I guess that's just personal. The fish themselves aren't hurt the way parrotfish or neon glassfish are. I even saw "tattood" mollies that made me mad, but oh well.

The pottery that growls!
Post InfoPosted 19-Aug-2007 04:53Profile Homepage AIM Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
eat_ham222
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Banned
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Registered: 20-Jul-2007
male usa
Hey, if a practice doesnt hurt the fish, or effect its abilty to mate, breed, defend itself, or hunt, whats the harm? ive never seen those glowing danios in rl, so i cant reallly have a huge opinion
Post InfoPosted 19-Aug-2007 06:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Callatya
 
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The girl's got crabs!
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female australia au-newsouthwales
EditedEdited by Callatya
Unless you have a good handle on other parts of genetics and interactions and so on, breeding for size is playing with fire. Dwarfing genes (and there are lots) in particular can really mess up the structure and in turn the function of an animal. Giant genes appear to be less problematic but are still a bit dicey.

That is not to say that size cannot be played with, it is just the way in which it is achieved that is different. I personally believe that dwarfing shouldn't be touched, but breeding two otherwise healthy and well-proportioned fish that are slightly on the small side (you'd have to check the proportion very very carefully as small isn't small isn't small in a lot of cases) then you would end up with offspring with more of a chance of having a lower genetic potential for size. Step back for a moment and think of size in relation to humans or other animals, and how that can be affected, how many generations it can take to appear, what other factors influence things etc etc.

As one of those people that does line breed for exploitation of genetic mutations (and lets just not get into the ethics or commentaries on my sense of self) there are lines that you just shouldn't cross, and one of them is breeding for a single trait - any trait, including hardiness and immunity etc - with no regard for anything else, because that is when it all goes pear-shaped. It may get you to where you want to be quickly, or it may give you some mangled excuse for a fish, but either way it will be at great sacrifice to the overall quality of the specimen. It has to be a broad and balanced approach. If you cannot achieve what you want without knowingly causing damage (and this is assuming that your base level 'damage' takes into account the limited gene pool, lack of predation and natural selection, chemicals, antibiotics and preservatives and the human inability to spot a good fish from a bad one etc etc that are all part and parcel of tank kept fish, and are worse with tank bred, and continue to compound each generation) then it shouldn't be done. The definition of 'damage' however, is not written in stone and will vary from person to person. For example, if you want to work with a ranchu, your base level of damage moves up to include the idea of a ranchu. There is no aspect of fishkeeping that causes no damage to the fish, it is just the level of acceptable damage that differs.

And no, all inbreeding isn't bad, it is perfectly natural with many species. At some point it may well become an issue naturally, but with many fish, the spawn size and short breeding interval make it less of a problem. It is human interference and selection for a single goal that can make it ugly.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Post InfoPosted 19-Aug-2007 10:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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