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I've got a 20 gallon tank in my room that I am turning into a planted tank. The only problem is that the water is a constant 80 degrees due to a lack of AC and a lack of a good fan going in here -_- I was going to do white clouds, but then realised that they'd probably fry in there(oops. . . Glad I don't have the tank cycled yet!) and I'd like something I Don't have in my other tank(harlequins, livebearers and neons) that stays really small.

I definately wanted something slightly easier to take care of, but what is there that is small, colourful, sorta easy and likes 80F tank temps? I know cardinal tetras like the warm water, but how can you make sure that they'll live? Mine always died on me, probably because I never really took great care of my tanks until lately, but if I did get them, how do you really care for them well?

Also, no guppies

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how about a Neon Dwarf Gourami they are colorful can be kept in a smaller tank they only get about 2 to 3 inches like temps of 77 to 82 only thing I could see being a problem is they are semi-aggressive fish

*nods* I was hoping on a school of fish since the tank is so small though. Instead of a centerpiece and a school.

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There are some high temperature small cichlids, some rams and apistos can take the higher temps with grace, and a few actually need them in the 80's, as, for easy though, that can be relative to your abilities. As long as the water quality is good, you cycle well in advance of including them, have plants etc, and give them a good quality diet, they can and should do well.

Most tetras would be good, schooling fish for warm water. They tend to do best in cycled tanks with regular maintenance. If you're keeping harlequins and neons alive, you shouldn't have trouble with others, like rummy-noses (excellent schoolers) or lemon tetras.

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If your just looking for a schooling fish most tetras would be fine. I had black neons in a tank kept above 80F. Due to having so many windows the room was nearly made out of glass and no shade at all it would shoot up to 86F within 24hours even in the winter when it was below 0 outside. I had to keep the tank at around 84F and stocked it with black neons, rams, and 1 angel. I never had any issues with the black neons. They were quite hardy and I didn't lose a single one even with acclimating them rather quickly and the tank going through major temp fluctuations(78F up to 86F) followed by ich until I realized I had to turn the heaters way up to keep it stable.

So maybe I could keep cardinals? I do rather like them

How much care do they need? I still don't know what species of cory I'd be keeping. I was hoping I can find a pygmy species, since I could have a big school in the smaller tank. Other than those, any suggestions? I'd like something that doesn't get to be more than 2" long if possible.

Maybe 12 or so cardinals and the school of cories.


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Bettas might be an option too, but perhaps not as small as you were after. Could be difficult to get the smaller ones to school nicely anyway, so I'll just throw it out there as an option

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Gilraen, I'd go with the Rummynoses , these are great little fish who are always active . Also they tell you thru the colour of there noses if they are happy

Enjoy
Garry

I have Tiger Barbs in 80 degree water, they do well! They are a BLAST to watch!

If you are worried about the number of losses you have buying cardinals I'd stay away from rummies. They are put through some rather harsh conditions and major temp changes from the dealers to the stores. This results in very high losses. Some stores may replace the dead fish at no charge if you bring in the body and a sample of your water but you'll probably be doing that several times before you get a healthy school of rummies. I don't know anyone that's bought them and not lost at least 2 and sometimes the entire school they bought. Unless they got the fish directly from a breeder or a store that understood their requirements and setup special tanks just for them and then matched those requirements in their own tank, especially temp. There is only 1 store in a 50mile radius of me that will actually order rummies and requires you to pick them up on the day of delivery without putting them in their tanks because of how few survive.

I was just worryed because I'd had bad luck with them before. But as mentioned, I wasn't really caring for my fish then, so that makes a big difference I'd assume. . .

Any tips on caring for cardinals?

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Item One: if you can find a source of Rummy Nosed Tetras that won't die off on you, they're actually one of your best choices for an aquarium that's going to be consistently above 80 degrees F. Rummies are amongst the most devoted "sauna lovers" of the popular small Characins, and will go up as far as 88 degrees F without undue worries. Indeed, they're among the fishes that will happily stand the same conditions as Discus (hence their being chosen as companions for Discus in some setups, and very compatible they are too in such a setting).

The issue here brings me to one of my favourite words - provenance. If your dealer's Rummies are sourced from certain Singapore dealers, avoid them like the plague, as they endure some seriously weird rearing conditions prior to hitting the dealer's. Basically, ask your dealer to hold the Rummies for 14 days (put down a 50% deposit as an incentive so he'll know you mean to buy them!) and collect them once they've been alive in the dealer aquarium for 14 days. At that point, chances are they'll survive the transfer to your aquarium.

Also, bear in mind that Rummies are among the most sensitive of all the popular Characins to transport shock. Which means you have to take precautions when moving them. Request that they be bagged so that they're in total darkness when you transport them, put them somewhere where they won't experience too much 'motion sickness' en route to your home (if you're driving a car, put them on the front passenger seat and drive home with more than usual care and attention) and switch off the aquarium lights for the introduction phase. Keep the lights off for up to 2 hours during their introduction to the aquarium, and have some live food handy for when you turn the lights back on (live Daphnia is ideal here) and the Rummies should settle in nicely. I had them in the past and some of mine lived to be 8 years old!

Item Two: Cardinals pose fewer provenance problems and are much less problematic transportation wise, but it's advisable to make sure that they've been at the dealer's for some time before taking delivery. Cardinals can exhibit some interesting shock symptoms that make you think they're dying, only for them to bounce back if left alone and regain their composure. Again, they'll stand 80-82 degrees F with no trouble, and I've had mine survive 88 during a heatwave in the past, so I wouldn't be too worried about selecting Cardinals for your aquarium (they're another species that find their way into some Discus aquaria for a range of compatibility reasons). I've had Cardinals on a near-continuous basis now for, oh, 12 years ... and in that time the only BIG problem I had was nothing to do with the Cardinals themselves, and centred upon my water company dumping excess treatment chemicals in the tap water causing a near-wipeout.

Basically, check the provenance of ALL your fishes before buying. If your dealer is prepared to hold them for 14 days before you take delivery, and they survive in his aquaria for that time, then there's a good chance they'll survive in yours. If you can get locally bred specimens (not likely with either Cardiinals or Rummies due to both species being a serious breeding challenge in the home aquarium) then you're onto awinner - snap them up even if they're at a premium price because their survivability will be seriously enhanced in that case.



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Only problem is most stores can't tell me where the fish are from. I asked about rams once and just got told they come in from somewhere in IL. That wasn't even where they were bred but only where the dealer that sent them out to stores was located and they couldn't even give me the city. I've had similar results asking at other stores. All they seem to know is they have this list of fish they can order that they are given by someone and they call a number to get more fish. Noone knows where they come from. It's like the truck just magically appears at their door full of fish. One of the main reasons I've mostly gone to buying fish from local people or off ebay and aquabid.

How strange.

The stores where I shop here in the UK can trace their provenance. But then the importation paperwork is MUCH more voluminous for UK importations I suspect ...

Basically, if you want to import fish into the UK for trade in the tropical fish market, you've got to provide all kinds of details to those nice Customs & Excise people. If your paperwork isn't in order, the fish are impounded and carted off to a zoo.

Consequently, a dealer in the UK can tell whether his current stock came from Singapore, Israel, the Czech Republic or were bred within the UK itself. The assorted dockets travelling with the fishes provide a nice audit trail.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002