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So my mum finaly dropped the news that I was aloud to get a new small tank ^^ which is just what I've wanted for a while. Im hoping for a 12-15 UK gallon tank, found a local shop that has all sorts of tanks in different sizes, I've been before but not down that aisle lol!

So I am starting to consider my options! I really wish I had planned my big tank like this but I didnt know that much about fish at all a year or so ago. I think it will be the 12 gallon square tank. So the set up I am thinking of are...

3 Sparklng gourami
6 Phoenix rasbora or 4/5 neons or 4/5 galaxy rasbora
4-5 ghost or cherry shrimp?
the tank would be really well planted, not sure what type of plants yet but lots lol.
would this work? any one got any sugestions?

Congratulations.
Remember tetras and rasboras like to be in groups of 6+
Yeah, that would work and you'd probably have space for some other stuff (you definitly would with a 15)

thanks

do you think I would have room to top the tetras or galaxies up to 6, because it most probably will be the 12 gallon?

I'm starting to think I would prefare the pheonix rasboras as I would be able to get a much bigger school with them than the neons or the galaxies, is this right?

All those fish are only around 1" in length. It isn't really going to matter which one you choose. You can still do at least 6 of them.

ah I see, I thought the cardinals and galaxies got to two inch where as the pheonix got to 1/2 inch?

cool thanks for the fast help guys ^^

any additional ideas for tank mates?

Cardinals do get 2" but you said neons which only get a little over an inch. The rasboras both aren't even 1". Your comparing 1/4" worth of fish. Thickness of body probably adds in far more to bioload and activity level to space needed than that tiny difference in length would.

Cardinals do get 2" but you said neons which only get a little over an inch. The rasboras both aren't even 1". Your comparing 1/4" worth of fish. Thickness of body probably adds in far more to bioload and activity level to space needed than that tiny difference in length would.

Sorry thats my fault, i meant to put cardinal as i understand that neons can be inbred and week compared to cardinals because of their popularity?

I think I do prefare the rasboras to the tetras though

So im thinking

3- sparkling gourami
8 phoenix or galaxy rasboras (do you think a school of 4 each could work?)
5 cherry red shrimp

Do you think this would work in a 12 UK gallon tank (at a guess 15 US gallons)

Also can anyone recomend a good filter for this size tank? I was thinking undergravel but I would like to plant the tank so I was unsure if they mix?

If the tank is heavily planted and has an appropriate filter (a HOB rated for about 20 gallons would probably be best), then you can stock it even more than what you have down.

If I was doing it, it would probably go something like this:

3 Sparkling Gouramis
10 Phoenix Rasboras or Galaxy Rasboras/Danios
5-7 Cherry Shrimp
Lots of smaller leaved plants
Compact fluorescent lighting

The Cherry Shrimp are like 99% water so they add even less to the bioload than fish of the same size and the rasboras/danios are full grown at less than one inch, so they produce even less waste than a Neon Tetra. Because of this you can higher numbers of these species than if you were using Neons and Ghost Shrimp instead.

Smaller-leaved plants will make the tank look larger than it really is, so try and get more of those than larger plants if you can.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

thankyou , unfortunatly i am not aloud an external filter of any kind as the tank is going in the lounge so parents dont want any mess *sigh*.... So I was thinking of getting an internal filter there is one i have seen that is like a silver triangle that sits on the glass sorry i dont know the name (ill have a quick google and edit this soon) I would have gone for a higher rated filter but i dont want to much current.

also would the stocking work if it was

3 sparkling gourami
6 galaxy rasbora
6 pheonix rasbora
5 cherry shrimp

also any sugestions of plants I could look into? I love moss balls so i imagine at least 2 will get in there

Hi there , bit of an update on the tank issues ^^

I am getting the tank a week today Im getting a Jewel Rekford 70 ^^ The plant's should be delivered on wednesday - thursday.

For stocking I am thinking of adding apistogramma cacatuoides (dwarf cocatoo cichlids) to the mix, perhaps 1 or a male and a female? I have read up on them and it does seem that they are generaly peaceful fish. I do also have experience with south american dwarf cichlids in my main tank. And they will be the feature fish in the tank so they wont be fighting for dominance. If anyone has any personal experience with them and schooling fish and or shrimp could you please let me know if this would work or not? I wanted to add a bright focal fish as this tank is partly for my mum and she likes to name fish, so I thought that this would be a good feature fish for the tank that she can name and stuff lol.

Now the tank nearly 18.5 US gallons which is a little bigger than I had first thought. So How would this be for stocking?

1 Male apistogramma cacatuoides
1 Female apistogramma cacatuoides
2 Sparkling gourami
8 Pheonix Rasbora
2 otos
5 Cherry red shrimps

Do you think with regular maintenance this is a good stocking?

Apstos may eat shrimp. It's always a gamble when you add cichlids and shrimp to the same tank. Especially such small shrimp as cherries.

Internal filters aren't as good as an hob/powerfilter but there are some decent ones out there. I like my duetto http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3632&N=2004+113424 I've used it as a backup filter and occasionally the only filtration on a small tank for several years. It has 2 sponges and a space for carbon.

There are also the whisper filters. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=12085&N=2004+113424 I don't generaly like whisper filters since all the hob I've used have broken down but their internal filter looks better than most. It should still provide the surface agitation of an hob and has multiple media sections. Something like the duetto would have to be placed really close to the surface to get any movement and oxygenation.

Apisto's will eat the shrimp, if they dont straight off they will when they breed!

Yeah ive been reading lots of reports of the appistos eating shrimps. So I've done more research and come up with a final stocking plan (I think)

Now i had drawn up 2 tank lists that i got pics of to show my parents and they did what i really didnt want decide to mix the lists *bangs head on wall*

The two tank ideas were

1. South american biotope
1 male appisto
2 female appisto
5-6 rummy nose tetras
3 small cory cats (id get a species that maxes out around 2 inches)

2. Aisian biotope
3 sparkling gourami
6 galaxy rasbora
6 pheonix rasbora
5 shrimp (with an aim to breed them)

the fish my parents want (and yes i have to go with what they decide because its their lounge lol)
1 male appisto
2 female appisto
6 galaxy rasbora
6 pheonix rasbora
3-4 of the small cory cats

but this really over stocks the tank

So my proposal will be
1 male Cockatoo dwarf cichlid
2 female Cockatoo dwarf cichlids
2 sparkling gourami
5 pheonix rasbora
3 small corydora (still looking for specific species for size hoping for around 2 inch)


The capacity of the tank is around 20 US gallons. And because of where it will be placed in the house I can allways fill it reasonably full for maximum capacity. And there will of course be regular water changes in the tank so as long as i let the filter mature well before adding the cockatoos everything will run smoothly.

The cories need to be in groups of 6+. Some of the larger ones aren't quite as social and might get along in a group of 4 but that doesn't gain you much except that they tend to be a bit hardier. The really small cories tend to prefer even more company, 8+, and are more sensitive to water quality.

2 sparkling gouramis may cause issues. They do pick on each other some and while it's not real serious and rarely leads to injury if there is only 1 gourami to be picked on it may get stressed to the point of death. With 3 or more the agression is spread out and the most dominant 1 will usually chase the other 2 equally. I had over 8 of these guys once and put them in various tank setups including pairs and trios to try to spawn them. Pairs always led to 1 being stressed, faded, and sometimes having torn up fins while 3 nearly always worked out and 4 or more never had the slightest sign of injury.


Why not 6 rasboras, a pair of small cichlids, and 3-4 sparkling gouramis? You can give your parents the choice of one of the rasboras and pick a few different cichlids for them to choose from. Then they still feel like they made the decisions but at the same time you limit their choices to what works. Slightly heavy on the midlevel stocking but could work. Even better might be to go with the cories and completely leave out the rasbora and tetra species.

Thankyou very much for all the help through all the posts Sham really appreciate it.

I did not realise that the smaller cory cats need to be in bigger schools. I think perhaps that rules them out, as they were being added to replace the shrimps because of the cichlids.

For the gourami, I will definatly up the numbers in that respect then. I will try for 4 preferably than 3. I chose the cockatoo cichlids as I know I can get them and from a shop I really trust as well, were as if i went for other dwarfs i would have to perhaps look to the slightly risky LFS from my area. And also after looking through my books and sites they are my favorite dwarfs I can find especialy the variations available as well .

The only problem I have now is looking for some kind of scavener fish for the base any one have any sugestions?

I'd be hesitant about mixing Galaxy/Phoenix Rasboras with any kind of cichlid. These cyprinids are extremely shy, and I'd be willing to bet that any fish in there that shows even slight aggression towards other species (which Apistos do) will send them hiding.

Additionally, both the Apistos and Galaxy Rasboras are middle-bottom level dwellers, so some conflicts might arise there if the cichlids feel they don't have enough room.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

Okay thanks. Ive been doing some thinking and I definatly want the apistos. But what about tank mates?

I was thinking maybe cherry barbs? They are colourful and ive heard barbs can be pushy as well?

Or I was thinking hatchet fish as they are surface dwellers out of the way of the appistos?

If anyone has any other sugestions they would be really appreciated . I also want a bottom dweller/scavenger, but I cant fit a big enough cory school with the other fish so perhaps a small plec? Like a BN or rubberlip or I was thinking a gold nuget or a peckolita of some kind? Is the tank too small for them im a little undecided, but i think it might be unless there are some kinds of plecs that only get too 3 inches.

There are plecos around 3". They are just harder to find. Clowns would probably be the easiest of the small plecs to find. Most of mine still aren't over 3". http://fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/329.htm They do require wood in the tank. Bristlenose may be too large for your tank. There are a few species under that name but they average 6-8" in length which would be pushing it. The plecos that go by the name gold nugget can reach 1' or more in length and are usually quite agressive toward other bottom dwelling fish. Very attractive plecos but mine beat the crap out of my bn even when it was only 4" and the bn was 6". They were also in a 55g with a ton of caves and hiding places. I ended up giving it away and getting an olive royal. Which are definitely too big and messy for your tank.

You could also probably do kuhli loaches. With their slim bodies they fit pretty well in small tanks. They are more active and easily seen the more you have but a group of 4 would do alright.

I was going to add wood I know how much fish love exporing it and i know its important for plecs digestive system. I honestly thought that the gold nuget stayed small! Wrong there lol! I know somewhere that I can get L147 which is a peckolita and stays under 4 inches do you think that this would be pushing it?

I had thought of kuhli loaches......but my mum dosnt like "snake" like fish unfortunatly lol.

Thanks for the help though

According to planet catfish L147 reaches ~6". http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=802 It depends a bit on the dimensions of your tank. If it's a tall tank there won't be a whole lot of space for a pleco to swim around and if it's narrow the pleco would have trouble turning. For something like a 20g long which has alot of substrate area and is 12" wide a 6" pleco would do fine. I actually have 4 clowns and my 5-6" bn taking up my 20g long for now but the only other thing in there is a little female betta. The tank also has 3 pieces of driftwood that create caves and nearly touch the surface so the entire space is used by the plecos. In a hex or square tank that had more height than width and that was going to be stocked with other fish I'd probably stick with only very small plecos that definitely wouldn't go over 5".