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are there any bottom dwellers thant you dont need to school? I want atleast 9-12 fish. I just want something to eat the alage (sorry for spelling). I wanted to go with a fider crab but im afraid it will eat my fish and i dont know how big they are on cleaning tanks. I do not want to go snail because i heard they muiltiply fast and can get on your nerves. Lol i been reading for hours and hours trying to get it right. Anyone else have any more suggestions on stocking. oh yeah also can i use 5 dainos to cycle with so they feel more comforable? Also lol im asking alot anything else i should keep in stock chemical wise. I currently have chlor-out, Microbe blend, stress coat, and super ick cure. I want to get everything today. I was reading on kits and i heard i should just get ammonia kits and treatments. What do yall think im going to the lfs in a few hours

you dont have to answer this i received the amswer in the daino forum you guys are great thanks

I got 3 dainos for my cycling prosses (I wrote this in the danio thread too) but one of my dainos seem to be enjoying the bubbles comeing from the water falling into the tank from the bio filter alittle to much. The other ones seem to be sticking together going thru the different holes in the decor. Should i be concerned for bubble guy is it a sick one?

Ahh, sorry. ].] Then it all depends on your gouramis. I was just speaking from what I've seen. I have a friend with several gourami tanks as well as a 55 gallon tank filled with gouramis and a few other varieties of fish. I never saw the gouramis be territorial or violent towards each other(Not even fin nipping), even when they were moved to a smaller tank.

One snail, such as a mystery, or many other types found on LiveAquaria.com should not reproduce the way pond snails will.
I agree with Mogmog in that silk plants look more realistic than plastic. They tend to flow with the water more b/c they aren't as stiff, IMO they are worth the little extra money.
1 Danio might take awhile to cycle a 20, and since they should be kept in groups, I'd go with 3. You can always bring them back when cycling is over, dont forget.

A lone Gourami won't be happy amidst a few Endlers and one guppy, for instance.

Certain species of gourami will be very aggressive towards their own kind, so they are usually better of as loners in small tanks, that way there is not competition for territories, etc. This is especially true with the dwarf gourami. I'd keep the gourami solo, because of agression and territorial problems, and because there might not be enough room for too many more.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I'm a bit of a newb too! (Hee) Well, at least here I am.

Waaay back up there you mentioned plants! I know the frusteration of having a tank suddenly fall to pieces, and the same feeling goes along with plants. They can be troublesome at times. What I recommend is at least one live plant, and for fake plants, try and go for silk ones. They look much better and are nicer than awkward looking plastic plants.

Danios are excellent cyclers like pretty much everyone else has mentioned... But you probably don't want to go for five of them. They're fin nippers afterall, and unless you want a danio tank, go with 1-3. (I suggest 1 or 2)

As algae cleaners go, you probably don't have many options if you don't want them to school. Honestly though, a few panda cories in a school won't take up too much space. Panda cories don't grow too large. I've seen that 3-4 cories work out just fine.

Once you've cycled for a week or two...
I think your best options are to go with one or two primary species...A lone Gourami won't be happy amidst a few Endlers and one guppy, for instance.

Don't ask me for advice if you go for Gouramis, but if you decide to go for guppies, get plants like Moneywort or Water Wisteria. And if you can find it, Javamoss rocks. Good luck!

"If you just get one snail they won't multiply like crazy".
All it takes is one pond snail (reproduce asexually) to have a major snail problem in your tank.. Research and know what type of snail you are adding and how they multiply or you'll have snail probs...

The Amazon Nut...

Most cories like schools, so if you dont want a school you could get a small pleco, such as the pitbull plec, or maybe a trio of small loaches. If you just get one snail they won't multiply like crazy, and theres some really pretty ones out there IMO. Ghost shrimp are a good clean up crew and don't contribute to the bioload heavily at all.
As for the frogs bioload...I think it basically depends on the size, I don't think ADF's contribute too much.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Ottos are good for cleaning algae, I just added 2 (will be adding a 3rd) to my 20 gallon tank. They have been busy, cleaning the plants and tank!
My personal experience has been negative w/ Zebra Danios, but that's my opinion. Mine were extremely nippy and aggressive w/ other fish.
Guppies are small, and there are some gorgeous ones out there. I'm also a fan of Dwarf and Pearl Gouramis. But my personal experience would make me hesitant to have long finned fish w/ danios, but other people may have different experiences.
I would figure out which fish you really like, and post here, like Liana suggested.

I'm somewhat of a newbie, getting back into the 'hobby' (aka obsession!). I've tried to rank which fish I like the best, and I'm trying to stock in that order...so if I get to where I know I'd be overstocking, at least I have the ones I wanted the most.
But I also keep seeing more swordtails I just have to have, and my 55 gallon tank isn't turning out as planned! haha But that's what more tanks are for, right??
And I have noticed as I look at my fish, even w/ the few I have, I don't think I'd want as many as I planned. Would look crowded to me.

Also, Amano shrimp are pretty interesting and will eat algae, without much impact on the tank's bioload.
And I have read that frogs have a big impact on the bioload of the tank, so you might want to look into that.

I have had real plants for a few weeks now, and as time goes on, I may see more issues, but mine have been growing like weeds w/ no special care. I have between 2.2 and 3 watts per gallon for light in those tanks. And I agree real plants look better, I've changed a lot of friends minds with mine.

And I haven't done it, but I know many people here are fans of fishless cycling.

There is a lot of great information on this site, at the library, and on the internet. But there are also a lot of varying opinions as some things work for some people and not others! Good luck with everything!!!

My friend has only 2 cories and they are just fine.

The Amazon Nut...

ok i brought a tank 5 days ago 20g. I have a 100w heater, A penguin bio wheel an air pump and a few decor so far. I want to start cycling fish tomorrow after i get my water tested. My water tempture stays between 80-76f. So far i put some Chlor out in it, Stress Coat and Microbe-lift special blen which stunk up my whole room. I have some super Ick in stock and some fish flakes. Am i missing anything beside the water test? Also so far I been reading on water plants but i want to know what yall think about them? Are they really needed or should I go for the fake plants. I want to house small fish nothing real big nothing over 2 1/2 inches. Pleaseeeeeeee Heelllp me I really dont want to keep restocking fish that keep dying on me. Also I want a wide arrangement of colors in my tank nothing basic i like colorful fish so give me some suggestions i want at least 10 fish not including bottom dwellers I know im asking for a lot but I have faith in you guys that yall will lead me in the right direction

Just wanted to say that if you do go with a school of cories you need more than just 2, cory's are happy in schools of 6, and they must be all the same type too.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I suggest platies for your tank. You can use them to cycle. About three would be fine (1M/2F).

I like dwarf gouramis, but I like pearl gouramis even better. Pictures don't do them justice, but here is the profile (the grow about an inch bigger than dwarf gouramis):

http://fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?id=Trichogaster+leerii

Maybe for the stocking something like this:

3 platies
1 pearl gourami
6 cories (that stay under two inches)

Yup, dwarf gouramis are very nice fish..

With guppys there are 2 ways to school them..
Either 2 to 3 females to each male.
Or all males.. Same with platys and mollies.
A dwarf gourami or 2 would get along with guppys to a degree and they will keep your fry level down once the guppys breed.

The larger gouramis are nice too, a 20 gal would be good for one of the larger gouramis (gold, opaline, blue etc..)
and they're interesting fish also.

If you're going to add a cleaner fish do not get a plec (outgrow a 20) or a CIA (chinese algae eater).. Cories may may be a better choice for that tank, get at least 2 if you're adding them.. They are not really cleaners but will keep the tank bottom clear of leftover food etc.. If you're not overfeeding there will be hardly any. You have lots of options for the 20..

African cichlids are colorful and you could do the tank up with rock caves you make yourself.. The shell-dwelling ones (multis) are neat also. Enjoy your new tank !

The Amazon Nut...

Thanks your the best!!!!!!! Ill start looking them up

That makes a lot of tetras out of the picture, b/c most are schooling. You could get a dwarf gourami, they are really colorful and dont need as school. This goes the same for many livebearers.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I want small peaceful fish that you really dont have to school. I have a 20g tank Im also going to get a little frog too. I really dont want anything over 2 1/2 inches. Im going to start out with dainos but after im done i want some color either livebearers, Taty stuff with color that i dont have to buy more than 3 of.

Wow, you sure know a heckuva lot more than did when I first started this hobby.

Well Danios make good cyclers as they are very hardy. Live plants arent necessary for your tank but look better IMO. If you go with live plants, you need good lighting and may need to do CO2 injections and stuff. There are many different fish you can choose for vibrant colors, many species of killi are gourgeous, fancy guppies and bettas have lots of colors, as do many types of tetras. I think you should go to your lfs, write down the types of fish that interest you, and then report back here. I don't know who first suggested that, but it's really helpful. Then we can go from there.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish