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Ok, i dont know what is going on

I went to the LFS and bought like 20 neons. (acually they were cardnials, but they were labeled as neons)

The first 5 minutes, the smallest one wasnt doing too well, and it died.

Before i go on any more i will tell you how they catch their fish:

First they put a pretty big breeder tank in (about 1' long) fill it up with water, and then stick it on the table. They fill it up with the fish your gonna buy, (taking them out of the water anywhere from 2 - 45 seconds when there is a fish in there you didnt buy) and then they pour them into a bag, like literally dump them in the bag. They twist the bag around really fast, and put the gumbands on.

Now, I acclimited my fish for a little bit (floated the bag for about 10 minutes, then dump about 5 cups of water in (1 cup every 5 min or so) ) so it isnt like i just dumped them in the tank. Now i didnt acclimite them as long as i usually did the other fish.

Buy getting back to the story, the fish seem fine, but then when i go to feed them i turn the room light on first for about 5 minutes, and then i turn the tank light on. When i look in, i see my fish got kinda scared, but they quickly recover from it. Then i look in the corner, and the fish are like spiriling around, getting stuck to the filter then swimming off of it, and repeating the above. Within 5 minutes they are dead. The wierd thing is is that some of them float, and some stay dead at the bottom (do they have a disease or something? like swim bladder?)

Then yesterday i look in my tank, and my pleco looked dead. I looked in, and he wasnt, he was normal, and he swam around the tank, and acted normal. 15 minutes later my pleco was floating upside down dead. (This was a common pleco that was only about 2", when the person sold it to me, they droped it on the floor.. i didnt see it untill my friend said something after we left.) The pleco has been fine for 3 weeks so it was obvously getting food, and it was always eating the driftwood. I honostly dont understand why he would just kick after being normal 15 minutes earlier?

Another thing, my biggest anglefish died (maby 1" but he got caught in the rocks. Now, if he got caught, couldn't he of still breathed? We were gone for about 1 hour 30 minutes, and he was fine when we left.

I can't test the water because our house flooded from hurricane Ivan, and it destroyed everything downstairs (Including the test kits, and the stand our 55 gallon tank is on right now, which is bowing out.. i will make a post about that later)

The only thing i can think of why my neons died is because of the way they handled them, and of my water quality spiking when i added them. I can't think anything for the pleco other than he ate a diseased neon and died from it? My angle got caught, and i can see why it died (we have had angles getting caught before, but i still dont understand how they cant breath (maby someone can explain?)

It is really making me mad that these fish are dieing, and im ready to just move all of them out and setting up the tank as a saltwater tank.

If your having this much trouble with neons a pleco and some angels, I wouldn't even go near a saltwater tank.

Dropping the pleco would have been much, but since it seemed to have survived the encounter then survived in your tank until you put the neons in, then I'd personally rule that out.

It sounds like you put way too many fish in at once, and overloaded your bio-filter. The resulting nitrite spike probably killed the fish I imagine.

Neons may be small, but it's still 20, and if you have that many and don't catch to see if a dead one or two got caught somewhere you can't readily see, it can quickly overload a filter.

Couple of ideas:

What is your pH and how does it compare to the tank the fish came from?

I ask for pH readings and if it reads on the border using a general pH tester, then I request a high or low pH test depending on what end of the scale it is on. In my area, pH is high - like 7.8-8.0. Almost all fish stores in my are do not adjust their pH and acid loving fish are often raised in this high pH and thrive.

If you or your source are using different water sources or one of you is adjusting pH or one tank has aged enough for pH to drop (yours or lfs), then that will definitely kill off fish quickly when transferred.

Acclimation for any fish, I believe should be minimum 30 minutes for temperature, if pH is within 0.2. If pH is more than that, then a different acclimation method must be used.

Also, I couldn't get a sense of what your tank is like. You may have done this, but I'm going to ask anyway: Has the tank gone through a gradual cycling process (starting with a small handful of fish, reading parameters and waiting until they stabilize before adding a few more). A good bacterial colony must be establish and they take time to grow, even with bacterial starters. This means slow stocking over time. I took months to fully stock my 20 long. 20 fish seems like alot all at once, unless it is a very big tank.

Bullet your essentials for easier reads (get water quality readings from fish store by taking a bag of water since you can't)

Tank Size:
Filtration Type (Brand Name and Model Best):
Current STock List:
Ammonia:
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
pH:
Temp:

Don't buy more fish. Tell us what you have now left in the tank.

One word of caution: If power was lost and filters were off in your tank or at the source, fish can get sick in the following weeks from severe bacterial infections. Filters need to be cleaned of stagnant water prior to power being restored because good bacteria (aerobic) thrives until it uses up remaining o2. Then bad bacteria (anaerobic) grows, then spews out into the tank attacking stressed fish. I unplug my filters when power goes out, then clean them out when power comes back, if it is one hour or greater. That is what Marineland recommends in it's literature with their pumps.

Did your stock come before or after IVAN?


Last edited by Cory_Di at 03-Oct-2004 12:49

First off this comment "If your having this much trouble with neons a pleco and some angels, I wouldn't even go near a saltwater tank". Seems kinda rude so I'd disregard it.

The prob is the either the neons were diseased or the ph difference if there is one.. Either way if my friend said the LFS person dropped a fish I just bought, I'd take it right back to the store.. Maybe they'll give you another. Also less than 1 day isn't enough for an ammonia spike but adding 20 fish at once could induce one within a week. For small fish like neons it won't hurt to add them, about 5 at a time, wait a few weeks then add another 5 and so on.
Hope this helps !

The Amazon Nut...

It's not meant to be rude, and the last part of my post is rather helpful.

Its just a matter of fact.

If hes having trouble with his current situation, "giving up" and doing a more expensive salt water tank would be quite wasteful.

Like I said, if one or more of the neons got stuck somewhere and died, that's plenty of ammonia, then, more than enough nitrites to cause problems.

Last edited by TexasBetta at 03-Oct-2004 22:59

my advice is find a better LFS

ditto. your fish store sounds pretty sucky. I mean, they dropped your fish and didn't even say anything! ]:| thats pretty low. surely there must be somewhere better you can go not too far away. good luck!

my LFS doesnt take back fish (no guarentees)

Also, this LFS is one that supplies fish to all of the other LFS's around my city.

I do agree that they treat them pretty badly (I think they have seperate places where they hold the fish for export.)

Another thing. When did the LFS get the Neons?. What I am getting at is, if they just got them that morning or the perivous day, then you got then, thats at lot of stress for the fish. First being transported to the LFS, then dumped into their tanks, then along you came and put them into your tank. Thats alot of moving and if the fish is just slightly on the poor side, its enough to wipe it out.
Also regarding the Angel getting stuck in the rock. Even though they still can breath, in the meantime they are wriggling this way and that, trying to get out. In the end they could had internal damage happen to it.






Last edited by TigerAngel at 04-Oct-2004 16:16

"Spiraling Cards/Neons" is an indication of bad acclimation...

"A cup of water" every fifteen minutes is a sure fire way to kill Cards.

Angels caught in a rock crevice stress out and die.

Here's "rude": Pay $15 or more for a salt water fish and kill it within an hour or two with bad acclimation.

Wow!! That's rude.

--garyroland.

im ready to just move all of them out and setting up the tank as a saltwater tank.

a saltwater tank is nowhere near as easy as a freshwater tank, i don't understand why you would make the switch when you're having so much trouble with the freshwater. i don't have my own sw tank, but i know that testing your water parameters is A MUST when having one, and yet you don't have any test kits for fw. i have to agree with an earlier post that 20 fish is a lot to put in at once and your acclimation process doesn't exactly sound like you had the fishes health in mind. 30-ish minutes to acclimate is only good if you are matching the water temps together, assuming your ph is the same (as cory_di mentioned). you should be more like 1 cup every 10-15 minutes, not 5. and anyway, as stated before, 20 fish *is* a lot of fish even in a bigger tank. you don't even say how big the tank is?

---

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Texax Betta, now that I read your response to my post. I take it back and my apologies.. I agree about the saltwater when you put it like that.. Sometimes it's hard to understand the person's true intent when reading a post.. (*sticks foot in mouth)

The Amazon Nut...

You hadn't done anything different to the tank recently have you? Put in any pH balancers or amonia balancers or any other STRANGE chemical that would affect your water quality? The lil fishies like tetras IMO are quite senstitive, I can't keep them alive for very long myself which is why I don't even bother with them anymore... I'm sure that there are some out there that do just fine though...

Good luck with your tank, I hope you are able to work through your tribulations...

No problem mate, just trying to save the guy some money before he splurges on a salt setup, hehe.

First of all, I would like to say that I am sorry to hear that you were struck by hurricane Ivan.

Now I'd like to make a suggestion. Can you please get a quarantine tank. I bought myself one after having a similar experience with a shonky LFS. I had bought a few peppered cories, they were diseased, they died and infected all of my other fish with their disease. I had to start over again.

So anyway, for my opinion, get a quarantine tank. It is the best thing I ever did.

Lastly, I wonder if you would be able to have a word to the local RSPCA/Animal rescue authority about the treatment of the livestock of this store. I am sure if nobody says anything, the poor treatment of these fish will continue.

PS: Sorry also for getting on the soapbox. Im sure by now you are sick of everyones opinions.