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I have a 55 gallon FOWLR set-up that just finished cycling. Everything, (chemistry-wise) is OK, but I have this HUGE population of copepods and such in the tank. Like a cloud! I know a certain amount are good, but this is insane. Any suggestions? Thanks...

Once you add some fish, they should be more than happy to munch those fellas up. Copepods are a great live fish food, and best of all they're free. As long as you don't have so many predators that they completely decimate the population, the copepods should replenish constantly. A sump or refugium will be helpful in giving them a safe haven from hungry fish. Some fish like mandarin gobies eat almost only copepods.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Like Sirbooks said, lucky you! Free fish food!

If you dont already have a refugium to maintain the population on your setup, I'd add one FAST while you have the population. Then you'll be able to keep your fish fed with live food on a permanent basis. Which should make your forthcoming marine inmates VERY happy indeeed!

By the way Sirbooks, when you said "Mandarin Goby", did you actually mean Pterosynchiropus splendidus, the Mandarin Fish? Only that's actually a Dragonet (Family Callionymidae) ... However, you're right in that it will only eat small live invertebrates - no-one should EVER try and keep one without a refugium full of small crustaceans to keep it fed.

Meanwhile, I want to see some pics of this copepod cloud ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Most likely they are not pods anyway. Im betting that what you are seeing are mysid shrimp Still a good free source of food and nothing to worry about

Yep, that's the fish I meant. Over where I am, "mandarin goby", "mandarinfish", "mandarin dragonet" and a few others are all common names for the same species.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Pterosynchiropus splendidus, the Mandarin Fish? Only that's actually a Dragonet (Family Callionymidae) ... However, you're right in that it will only eat small live invertebrates - no-one should EVER try and keep one without a refugium full of small crustaceans to keep it fed.

Just to go a little further in clarification; they will eat anything. But, they will not live long without the copopods as their main food source. And true, if you do not have a large enough tank and sump to support a strong colony of copopods, then you should never attempt to keep these fish.

As for what you have, I agree, it is probably mysis shrimp and not copopods. As they rarely swim the open water, and usually are seen crawling around on the glass and such. The mysis shrimp however, will swim the open water.

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There is always a bigger fish...

Quick questions to you AcidRain. Re Mandarin Fishes. (Always pays to update one's database!)

One. Are there specfic crustaceans that Mandarin Fishes need in their diet?

Two. If they are relatively adaptable with respect to smll live crustaceans, will Mysis Shrimps fulfil their needs in this respect, or are copepods/amphipods a MUST?

Incidentally, I've also heard that one should cultivate amphipods to feed Mandarin Fishes. Is this valid, or in need or revision?


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

From my experience and knowledge, it is a must that they have copepods/amphipods. Mysis shrimp will not due. As well, I have heard of a lot of problems keeping the psychodelic mandarin as well, if not a good colony of copopods are established. But, I have at least heard of them living on other foods. But the Mandarin, requires them for survival. They will live for a while, even months on other foods, but will eventually perrish. I have read several studies done, and they don't know exactly why, but there is the need.

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There is always a bigger fish...

I therefore take it that if you are able to cultivate a variety of different species of copepod/amphipod in a large refugium, then this will be particularly beneficial in keeping a Mandarin Fish alive?

Every little snippet helps when planning ahead for the days when I can actually afford to do all of this


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I don't have one right now. But personally, I would not keep a Mandarin in less than a 75 gal min. This with a large sump and lots of LR, will substantially keep a large enough colony going for one's diet. However, I prefer the thought of keeping them in a min of something more along the lines of 125gal or more. And in this size tank, two will do fine. That is still with a large sump and lots of LR in both. The one I did have in a 120 gal, lived for over 5 years. I never saw him eat one piece of food I placed in the tank (for the other fish). Now years ago, before much of this was really known, and not at all known by myself, I tried 3 different times to keep one. None lasted over 6 months. One I tried in a 29 gal, ate everything I put in the tank to feed the fish. He perrished at about 2 months. Could not figure it out. One of those I tried in the 55 gal, perrished at about 2 months as well. I never saw him eat either. And the last one perrished at about 6 months. He never ate anything I put in the tank either. The 55 gal did not have a sump.

I have heard stories very simular to mine about, and so many times I cannot count them. I have never heard of anyone keeping one for very long, if it was not in a 75 gal with sump and lots of LR. I do know of a person that has one in a 29gal nano cube with corals. But, he also has a 300 gal tank that is loaded with copopods. And he uses a screen in the sump to catch them and move them to the nano tank for the mandarin. The Mandarin is one of three fish in that tank. And the copopods are the only food source that goes in it, for the fish.

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There is always a bigger fish...

So providing that you have a large enough tank, plenty of live rock and the ability to cultivate Copepod's in a Ref., your chance's of succes will be greater?

Nick
"Impossumable- unable to play dead"

The fuge is a good way. But that is the need for all the LR, a refuge for the copopods. Enough so that the colony continues. The refugium is not required, just enough room. And yes to your question, as long as you have enough space to keep a colony of copopods going while the fish eats their share, you will have success with these guys.

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There is always a bigger fish...

My best friend has a pair of mandarian's that ate all his copepods. he then target fed them mysis and brine shrimp with air line. they lived very well like this for 6 months before he got the population up again. and still they wait to be fed through airline each nite. Any animals diet can be safely changed if you are willing to put the time into it aqnd of course it has to have same nutrients that their regular diet would.

There exists some confusion between sources here ... whether copepods or amphipods are the animals of interest re Mandarin Fish feeding. Since they actually belong to different Orders of crustacea, I think some clarification is needed urgently as to which of these animals is the required food!

If both copeopds AND amphipods are suitable for feeding Mandarin Fish, then again, I have to ask if being able to cultivate more than one species will be even more beneficial, so as to provide the Mandarin Fish with dietary variety?

It would be interesting to note if Mandarins in the wild stick to one species of prey organism, or as I suspect is more likely, prey upon several species in the taxonomic Orders of interest.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002