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Hi all, im new... here anyways, LOL I have 4 freshwater tanks.... 2,2 gall betta's, both planted (as planted as you can make a 2 gall ) a 10gall and 29gall, I want to make a 10gall nano though...... but I want it to be FO, Fish only... cause I REALLY dont have the money for expensive lighting, or live rock or coral... but I really want a saltwater,...I have been resurching for a while...but I thought I would get advice from people who have actually done it... thanks

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

Sure, we'd be happy to help you out. What in particular would you like to know?

For now, I can tell you that you'll be limited as far as animals go. With an aquarium that small, there are not many fish that you could keep, and even the motile invertebrate choices aren't as big as they could be. Because the tank is so small and there is a lot of potential for salinity swings, I suggest animals that are pretty tough. A small dottyback, a firefish, maybe a small cardinal, a fang blenny, small gobies, and jawfish are all possibilities. For inverts, there are various shrimp, crabs, and snails you can choose from. You could even buy some plants.

Though you don't want to go for a reef setup, I do recommend live rock to you. Not only does good live rock come filled with lots of critters, but it does a great job at filtering the water. With such a small tank, you wouldn't end up paying that much at all. Just several small pieces should do it for you.

Welcome to Fish Profiles.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

well... I would like to know everthing
as far as what fish,.. I have been looking and I like the damsel (like the one you suggested) I know I cant have a lot...but its just a starter... I will look into live rock...maybe I can get some for cheaper than $59
Thanks for the warm welcome also

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

oh also...is lighting not an issue with live rock? thats why I said I wouldnt have any cause I thought it had to have good light...

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

I do think you should put in at least 1 chunk of live rock(a pound or 2 minimum). You could probably even get away with reef rubble which is the stuff that breaks off the larger pieces and is generally considered unuseable in larger tanks. Some sites sell it off for only $1-$2 per pound to put in refugiums. I did half my 20g in reef rubble from premiumaquatics.com and then a few larger pieces from local stores. Liverock is a far better filtering system than anything else you can buy and will provide the tank with very useful cleanup critters as well as really helping to cycle your tank. Then you could do the rest of the tank in dried rock if you want and it will eventually become live. Your fish and any inverts will need a place to hide or they will get stressed. Especially if you consider firefish or other potential tank jumpers. I probably wouldn't put a firefish in a 10g though. They are too active and too skittish with too much chance of smashing into the sides of the tank or attempting to go carpet surfing. Smaller gobies would be a good choice although some are rather short lived but it often also depends on the conditions they were captured, shipped, and kept in before reaching your tank.

For inverts I'd probably stick with smaller snails like nerites and nassarius vibex. Turbos are great algae eaters but are also successful little bulldozers in tanks around 20g or smaller. Mine was doing a bit of damage before he committed suicide by climbing directly over the top of the powerhead intake. 2 or 3 blue legged or I believe scarlet hermits work better as algae eaters in my tank. Some of the ceriths can also be a bit large depending exact species or location they are from. I also like my marginella and bubble snails although they aren't as useful as the nerites and nassarius. I got most of my cleanup crew from floridapets.com.

I'd also suggest keeping the substrate as shallow as possible and a smooth sand not crushed coral. Deep sand beds just aren't as effective in nano tanks as they are in some larger tanks and can easily lead to lots of issues.

I don't think I suggested a damselfish, and there's a reason for that. Most of the readily available species are jerks, and attack fish added to a tank after the damsel. Some, like the yellowtail damsel, are supposed to be nicer fish. But do consider the possible personality issues of damselfish, and also note that many grow too large for a ten gallon. A damsel would limit your other fish options to perhaps one other specimen.

Nope, live rock doesn't need light to act as a filter. A few of the creatures that can be found on the rock do need light, and will die without it. However, these are just extra hitchhikers, and don't affect the performance of the rock at all.

For what it's worth, I don't like snails at all. I hate my freshwater snails (plant hitchhikers), and I refuse to buy any for my salt tank. Unfortunately I've seen a few small ones which came with my live rock. Most people don't share my beef with snails, but I just feel that they're ugly, clumsy, and too messy. I like my hermits way better, though you could just as easily say that they're ugly, clumsy, and too messy. Beauty is in the eye...

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Hermits also have a much higher rate of eating corals(although not important in this case) and don't dig through the substrate nearly as much or clean hard to reach glass areas round and behind the rock work. I do really like my blue legged hermits though. Turbo hermit is especially amusing. Even when he was tiny he took over the giant turbo snail shell. He was so small and hidden it took me 3 days to figure out why that shell kept appearing in different areas of the tank. I've also had to rescue him when the goby flips him upside down for getting near it's hole. He's finally started to grow into his spacious home. You probably don't have to worry about those tiny snails. Marine snails are much less likely to multiply in a tank than freshwater snails. Partially because many species spend the first part of their life in a microscopic larval stage which gets destroyed by tank equipment. Usually if you add 5 snails your only going to have 5 snails. Since I added snails in Jan. I haven't gained any.

HEHE sorry sirbooks, I thought you said dimond not dotty... I am still in the learning stage of SW.. I know my fresh but when it comes to salt.....
Ok... I will go to my LFS (that is if I can get my mom to take me ) and will look at their live rock.... and so hmm.... let me be right back I whant to ask about a set up!
Thanks you guys are like SOO SOO SOO helpfull

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

ok... I was thinking this subtrate http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441810938&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030109&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&bmUID=1156336357038&itemNo=3&In=Fish&N=2030109&Ne=2
and like....live rock..... (you guys now have me 100% sure I need it LOL) and for fish... hmm. I was looking at the gobies.... they are all so pretty... and maybe... the royal dottyback? (like sirbooks suggested) I LOVE those... I swam with their cousins the royal gramma in key largo florida in the coral reef,.... and I LOVE the mandarin fish but I dont think im ready for that yet but then maybe.. the cardinalfish? bangaii to be exact... and for clean up ( I know i cant have ALL of these,.. im just thowing ideas out their ) umm I like the coral banded shrimp...LOL they are cool! I also HATE snails, UGGG with my somewhat planted UGG I hate them... also maybe some other type of shrimp? Thanks all!

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

"Marine snails are much less likely to multiply in a tank than freshwater snails."

I know, I saw one when I first added the rock and I've only seen two others at a time. And though hermits have their faults, they don't clog up equipment, climb out of the tank as well as snails, and aren't helpless when flipped upside-down as some snails are. Plus they can be very beautiful and funny.

Just for the record, royal dottybacks are one of the meanest Pseudochromis you can buy. They are small, but are fully capable of destroying many fishes' wills to live. They can either kill them outright or chase them out of the tank and onto the floor. A royal gramma would be more peaceful.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

oh... well isnt the royal gramma an atlantic fish rather than pacific? at least thats what it says in my book...cause I am leaning torwards a pacific tank....

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

also.... I read about power heads.... dont I need to get a under gravel (or in this case under sand LOL) filter for that to work? and were would I go about getting a power head and how do they work? thanks. I know im asking a LOT of questions... but thats ok.....right LOL

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

Yep, royal grammas are Atlantic fish. There's no reason why you can't house it with Pacific reef fish though, unless you really want just Pacific animals.

Powerheads do not need to be accompanied with undergravel filters. Powerheads can be standalone units, or they can hook up to a piece of equipment and supply the water to run it. They basically just suck up water then return it to the aquarium at speed. Water pumps work the same way, but normally on a bigger scale. I prefer pumps over powerheads myself. Both are available at any pet store, and you can buy them over the Internet as well.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

dang I just accidentally deleted my post.. LOl oh well, well I just thought that they would like... oh never mind my crazyness LOL and I will look into the pumps

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

Yeah, all the powerheads do is recreate the strong ocean currents that occur naturally in the wild.

However if my memory is correct (from when i researched getting a marine tank but decided i couldn't afford it) they are not as important in a FOWLR settup as it's the corals that need these to get their food that they don't get from photosynthesis.

However don't quote me on this, i'm sure someone here will correct/confirm this.

well if I got a power head or pump..would I be able to have a mandarin fish? cause I read that the way they get their food is through the current...

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

Probably not, they need at least a 55g tank with a similar sized sump i believe just to keep enough live rock to feed one.

oh dang I LOVE those guy's.... my local LFS has some and they are so neat looking... oh well, when (IF MY MOM TAKES ME ) I will look and see what all they have.....

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

ok well I just read up on them and they are DEFF. not the fish for me...LOL I have been reading all day LOL

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta