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Ok all.my mom has FINALLLY convinced me to do the 29gall salt instead of 10! she is helping me pay (thank GOSH or it would take me years to get that kinda money LOL) so ya.we went to the BEST LFS yesterday and she fell in love (YAY ) so ya.the only reason we arnt getting bigger is that dad would.well he just couldnt handle it! so.ya here is what I plan on getting/doing!
ok protien skimmer.going to get one for about $35.00.
ok now I have a prob. .LIVE ROCK I have about desided I am going to get the 22 pound box from drs.fosterandsmith for 108.37 (that includes shipping) and if need be I can get a little extra from the LFS.but If I got that much at the lfs it would cost at LEAST $175.00 + and I just cant afford that so.
ok I am NOT going to keep live coral.I 1. cant afford it and 2. not willing to buy a light LOL to expensive! so. ya.just fake stuff LOL
sand.is going to cost about $40


ok now for the fishies.this is were im having trouble cause EVERYONE want this fish and that fish and I am about to go insaine cause they wont SLOW DOWN LOL. im like.why cant we get a simple 55.NO NO NO so.

I want a yellow tang but I KNOW I CANT have one. so this is our "list" of things that we would like/asking if they are ok/info on them!
ok well I already know i HAVE to have like 2 clowns.end of story
now for the ?'s,,,
Damsel fish! we want the yellow tailed damsel and green Chromis (if possiable a school?) .how many and would they fight?
Fire fish
royal gramma ( we have to get one cause my mom wants one)
purple fish that is like royal gramma (not sure of name)
watchman goby
Citron goby
ANY GOBY
Yelow headed jawfish
cardinal fish
flame angel or other small angel!
now rember im not getting all of these LOL im not crazey!
I also want shrimp/snails/hermits!
Thanks everyone!


29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

OK, first of all, the Flame Angel. Unsuitable for anything under a 40 gallon, and preferably should be given a 55 minimum. Angelfishes become increasingly susceptible to disease if exposed to nitrate levels that are too high - some Angelfishes are fussy enough to need nitrates keeping as low as 20 parts per million (e.g., Queen Angel, but that's too big for your tank anyway, it needs a 200 gallon setup!) and most others won't like you if you let the nitrate levels climb above 40 ppm. Of course, in a 29, you're going to have your work cut out keeping nitrates low (yes, you SHOULD have beaten your parents over the head until they bought a 55 ) and your fish stocking in that tank is going to have to be low (as in a MAXIMUM of three small fishes) and biased toward fishes that will be forgiving toward your inevitable mistakes as a newcomer to saltwater fishkeeping. Even the advanced hands regard setting up a 29 FOWLR aquarium as a challenge, so you'd better go into this project with your eyes well and truly open, and be aware that saltwater management in a volume that small is going to be pretty intensive to stand a chance of success.

2 Clownfishes in a 29 is going to be VERY dicey. Even the advanced hands would put those in a larger aquarium. The reason being that they're related to Cichlids (the Cichlids and the Clownfishes/Damselfishes had a common evolutionary ancestor) and consequently will manifest some Cichlid like territorial behaviour. They'd probably take over the 29 as their exclusive domain and harass anything else in there to death. Which means that if you put 2 Clowns in there and the Royal Gramma you mother wants, it's possible you'll lose the Royal Gramma, or at best never see it emerge from its cave. It NEVER ceases to amaze me how many people think you can cram lots of pretty fish into a small volume even in freshwater without checking the consequences first, and in a marine aquarium it's a recipe for disaster. If the Royal Gramma goes in there, you do without the Clowns. Sorry, but coral reef fishes have stringent demands that HAVE to be met if you're going to stand ANY chance of success.

While Damsels are hardy, the usual ones offered for sale tend to be species such as Humbug Damsels - which are BAD NEWS in a setup as small as yours because they're as feisty as big American Cichlids, HIGHLY territorial and likely to out-compete more peaceful fishes for food. As for having a school of Chromis Damsels in there, forget that RIGHT NOW because a school of 6 or more needs 75 gallons to work properly!

As for the "Purple Fish that is like a Royal Gramma", the one that springs immediately to mind is the Strawberry Dottyback, Pseudochromis porphyreus. This is an incredibly feisty fish (you have a talent for picking these don't you? ) and will probably beat your Royal Gramma to death. Go here to the ReefKeeping page on Dottybacks and learn how feisty some of these fishes can be!

As for your Royal Gramma, well this Reefkeeping page devoted to them will teach you a LOT about their requirements, and list groups of fishes that are compatible or incompatible with them for various reasons. Note that you CAN have gobies with Royal Grammas, but you MUST put the Goby in first ... which brings me to another fun problem with marine fishes ...

Many marine fishes have to be added to an aquarium in a specific order. The reason being that many species have strong territorial instincts, and the more aggresive and feisty ones should be added later, after the more peaceful ones have had time to settle and establish their own homes. In your 29, fortunately, this isn't going to cause TOO many stocking problems because you won't have room for much else apart from the Royal Gramma and a Gobiodon citrinus Goby. But in a larger aquarium, with more fishes, introducing them in the wrong order can cause a disaster.

Which brings me on to your Goby. Yet another Reefkeeping page for you to look at, this time on the Gobies of interest.

The moral of all this? Simple. What you are embarking upon is the setting up of an ecosystem in your home, one containing demanding creatures with stringent requirements (water chemistry, furnishings, compatibility with other fishes) and this is something that can NOT be done in an instant! You HAVE to sit down and plan carefully in advance EVERY step of the way, be prepared to modify your selections along the way if species of choice aren't available, are too expensive or prove to be incompatible with other choices, and all of this requires you to engage in painstaking research as to what will and will not work. The WORST thing you can do is let your parents loose in the saltwater dealers without them being on a VERY tight leash, because if they're not experienced fishkeepers themselves, they'll engage in a "pick and mix" shopping expedition, putting lots of pretty coloured fish in a space that's too small, and in all probability mixing species that will rip each other apart. And given how expensive marine fishes are, that's a large financial hit to take if it all goes wrong. Which is why I don't have a marine aquarium currently - my finances won't stand the hit if it goes pear shaped, and I don't have the capital largesse to do the job properly from the word go. But I've been studying the marine side of the hobby for a LONG time - try thirty years. So, when the money DOES finally arrive and let me set up a marine aquarium, I'll have 30 years of intensive study to back me up. I'm not saying you need to go to those lengths, and spend 30 years in research before setting up your tank, but you'd be advised to put on the brakes NOW, engage in LOTS of research about possible species beforehand, what their basic requirements are, spend time over compatibility issues, and don't spend a penny on the aquarium until you have a robust, workable and reasonably flexible plan in hand that will give you a good chance of success at this enterprise. Patience, planning, research are VITAL if you're going to be a successful marine keeper. I wrote this piece for the Board some time ago, and while I wrote it in General Freshwater, trust me, it applies ten times over to marine aquaria. Read, digest and prepare yourself for a steep learning curve. Then, start educating your parents similarly.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

wow thats a lot of info! Thanks..I will be showing this to my mom and will see how it goes from their...... thanks!

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

Places you should visit include Reefkeeping online Magazine, which has a wealth of information on all sorts of fish species (and inverts too). Also, check out textbooks written by Mike Paletta and Anthony Calfo, two of the best known names in the marine fishkeeping world, both of whom have good provenance as accomplished keepers of assorted marine setups including setups containing some VERY demanding fishes indeed. These are two of the people who made it possible to keep such beauties as the Royal Empress Angelfish, Pygoplites diacanthus, alive for long periods in the aquarium where others failed (they latched onto its need for sponge based foods). Oh, don't try putting that in a 29 by the way - it's a candidate for a 150 gallon or larger!

I'm sure DarkRealm Overlord and AcidRain (two experienced reef keepers here on this Board) can hand out other useful advice too, along with Terranova, and if she's still passing this way, Oleta will probably be able to lend a hand too. All of them will probably tell you the same though - a marine system in a 29G is going to be a challenge, and your stocking will need to be chosen with ESPECIAL care because of this.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

What kind of skimmer are you getting for $35? If it's a bad one, you'd be better off saving the money for something else, like more live rock. The rock will provide not only filtration, decoration, and extra animals, but also food for many fish and invertebrates. The more rock you can get, the better off the tank will be.

Does the sand cost $40 because it's live? If not, you should be able to get plenty of aragonite sand for less than $40.

About the only thing I'll add in regards to stocking is that you shouldn't buy any fish just because a family member wants it. That very often leads to incompatibility, which in the worst case scenario can result in many fish and critter deaths. Get what you want, and explain to your parents why you can't just do things their way. If they haven't researched, they do not need to give you any suggestions. Print off pages from the Internet if you have to.

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

oh the simmer was just one I saw somewere... dont even remember were...
and about 30 pounds of aragonite is $40.... cause I cant get just a "30 pound bag" it has to be 2,,..15 pound bags..and I dont want to order it on line cause shipping is a killer.... I will have to see what the new LFS sells it for though......
I need to go back to the LFS to get a "general" idea of what everyone wants....so I can make a "compatable" list...ugg but the only good LFS is about an hour away the other one SUCKS (even though they are both owned by the same guy

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta