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1.025 will be fine for a reef. Anywhere between 1.023 and 1.025 would be fine for a reef tank. You can even go a little higher and push the 1.027 if you want. I keep my tanks (SPS) at 1.027 mainly because the higher salt concentration means a higher mineral concentration.

Corals dont do too well in a lower salinity like fish can. Fish have the ability to Osmoregulate where corals really cant do that. If you have the tank at 1.025 now, leave it there and keep it steady..both fish and corals will be happy with that salinity.

As for stocking....if the tank is stable you can start adding the corals that you feel comfy with keeping. Just make sure that when you add a fish that you let the tank get stable again before adding anything else, including corals. Corals dont really add to bioload, but the shock of being transfered and adjusting to a new tank that might have shifts because of stability wont be good for them.

Don't worry about the 12 gallon thing, I've decided against it lol . For the Urchin, will it go straight for coralline, or will it munch on macros first? cause I was hoping for it to rid my tank of the algae and then move it... Don't really wanna lose all my coralline.
DRO, how do I sex Banggais? I've ordered them from ym LFS, so I'm going to pick them up.
By the way, I will not have any clams or SPS, only softies and POSSIBLY LPS. I have 265watts of PC lighting. so are Falmes less inclined to peck these?

In order, my stocking list is:
2 Banggai Cardinals (ordered)
1 Purple Firefish (after I get my Cards, ordering these as well as a Longspine Urchin to get rid of my macro algae)
1 Hi Fin Red Banded Goby (with 1 Pistol Shrimp)
1 Royal Gramma

Are they sending you a male and a female Bangaii? If they arent then most likely you will end up with only one Bangaii by the time its all said and done. Males are extremely territorial and 99% of the time wont tolerate another male in the same tank as them unless its a big tank with a lot of live rock.

The long spined urchin is a nice addition...they will also eat coralline so keep that in mind if you want nice purple/pink/red, etc coralline algae on your rock.

I was going to get 2 Clowns, but I'm now making my 12 gallon a anemone/clown tank, so I want soemthing different for my 55. Any suggestions?? I was thinking Flame Angel, but they aren't completely reef safe I heard...

A 12g tank is going to be WAY to small for an anemone, and way too small for a clownfish/pair.

As far as flame angels being reef safe..for the most part they are. The will occasionally pick on clam mantles and coral polyps...its just like any fish though, its hit or miss. Even "reef safe" fish are not reef safe 100% of the time. Generally speaking,with "reef safe" fish, if you keep them well fed then they dont bother anything.

[hr width='40%']As family members wept,
And officers consoled one another,
We realized the magnitude of our loss
As we bury yet another Law Enforcement brother.

Hey!
http://community.webshots.com/album/512635489YpSZSz
Two months and counting!!
Anyways, I have 15 trochus snails, 15 ceriths and 2 cleaner shrimps (they eat right off my hands lol), and fish are coming soon. I've ordered the first two.
In order, my stocking list is:
2 Banggai Cardinals (ordered)
1 Purple Firefish (after I get my Cards, ordering these as well as a Longspine Urchin to get rid of my macro algae)
1 Hi Fin Red Banded Goby (with 1 Pistol Shrimp)
1 Royal Gramma

I was going to get 2 Clowns, but I'm now making my 12 gallon a anemone/clown tank, so I want soemthing different for my 55. Any suggestions?? I was thinking Flame Angel, but they aren't completely reef safe I heard...

I finally have the plumbing all hooked up and running perfectly! I will psot pics later. But during the last time I posted and now, I switched around my stocking ideas.

Fish:
1 Royal Gramma
2 Kaudern’s/Bangaii Cardinalfish
2 False Perculas
3 Purple Firefish (decora)
1 Six Line Wrasse

Clean-up crew:
1 Emerald Crab
1 Hermit Crab
15 Nassarius Snails
15 Astrea Snails
2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimps

I only want one hermit, because I don't want to risk losing snails or fish, but I still want one to observe... I keep hearing stories about Six Line wrasses, and it seems to be they are either angels, or complete monsters in tanks... As for stocking order, how should I add the fish?

Can LPS (or any other coral I listed) survive in my lighting thoguh DRO? I will drip Kalkwasser now (pickling lime is a cheap subsitute right?).
And is the clean-up crew sufficient? should I get something that will sift the sand (is this good or bad for DSB, is 4" deep enoguh for DSB?)

Your lighting will be borderline for LPS. You could probably get away with it if you had the LPS at the top of the rock work and supplemented with feedings.

Pickling lime is a cheap substitute for Kalkwasser IME its works just as well, with the only difference being that there is more residue left over in your container that you drip from.

The clean up crew is sufficient IMO. I dont tend to use many snails or hermits, but each tank (and tank keeper) is different. The crew you have selected is a good one The Nassarius snails (nassarius vibex) will sift and turn the sand for you on their search for food and detrius. They should be all you need to keep the sand turned

4 inches is plenty for a DSB...a lot of research has shown that the benefits of a DSB can be reached in as little as 2 inches depth with a oolitic/sugar sized sand.

I am running a skimmer which is hooked to a MJ600 insump. For substrate I only have 30 pounds of Aragonite (CaribSea stuff) but I intend to get another 60 pounds or so so I get 4".
Can LPS (or any other coral I listed) survive in my lighting thoguh DRO? I will drip Kalkwasser now (pickling lime is a cheap subsitute right?).
And is the clean-up crew sufficient? should I get something that will sift the sand (is this good or bad for DSB, is 4" deep enoguh for DSB?)
Oh I did look at the profiles, that's why I named those specific corals lol.

Last edited by nattereri at 10-Aug-2005 22:25

That stocking list looks good to me

I have profiles on most of the corals that you listed also. Ill list them below.

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[link=http://fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Reef%20Keeping/26209.html?200408201600]http://fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Reef%20Keeping/26209.html?200408201600" style="COLOR: #FF0000[/link]

You are correct, sun polyps (tubastrea) dont need any light at all....you can give them light, but they dont use photosynthesis at all They will require daily/every other day feedings though

Your circulation looks like it will be fine for the corals that you want to keep also. As for dripping Kalkwasser, you sure can. It will help to keep Alkalinity, calcium, and PH up while at the same time precipitating phosphate so your skimmer can remove it (if you are going to run a skimmer).

Nothing wrong with asking questions and researching before setting up..Im actually glad to see it. Most people dont take that first step in the right direction

Oh, the tank is no where near running lol, I'm just planning (way) ahead, I'm still in the process of making my overflow and sump...

Fish:
1 Royal Gramma
1 Kaudern’s/Bangaii Cardinalfish
2 False Perculas
1 Purple Firefish (decora)
3 Blue/Green Chromis
1 Six Line Wrasse

Clean-up crew:
1 Emerald Crab
10 Zebra/Left-Handed Hermit Crabs
15 Nassarius Snails
15 Astrea Snails
2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimps

Corals:
?LPS?: -Blasto (Wellsi)
-Bubble
-Caulastrea
Mushrooms
Green Star Polyps
Xenia
?Zoas?
?Sun Polyps?
(?=not sure if it can survive with my lighting (4x65W PC), Sun polyps don't need light?)

-3 MJ1200s circulation, 1 Mag5 (4' head, 310 gph) return
-Do I need to drip Kalk?

Are the stocking levels allright? Anything wrong with this setup?

I am still a long way from stocking my 55 FOWLR (which I may convert to reef later), but still want an idea of what I mgiht get (tell LFS to order, then quarantine, etc.) I was eyeing these fish: Royal Gramma, Kaudern’s/Bangaii Cardinalfish, Tomato Clown (frenatus, possibly in pair), Purple Firefish (decora), Neon Blue Goby, Blue/Green Chromis (small shoal), Six Line Wrasse (reef safe? fish safe?), Yellowhead Jawfish (don't know much on these guys).
This is my first saltwater tank. I am going to be running a Coralife 4x65W PC lighting kit, two Maxi-Jet 1200s for circulation, 1 Mag Drive 9.5 as return pump (for 10 gallon sump), 1 Saline Solutions "small" skimmer (Canadian company, www.salinesolutions.net) which is hooked to a MJ 600. Oh, and I have a Coralife 50gpd RO/DI unit.
As for salinity, is 1.026 a good mark? Temp 80F?
What about clean up crew (don't know much aobut this), Blue-legged/Red-legged Hermits, Turbo Snails, Stars, etc.?
And with my lighting, I'm thinking I can keep sofites (Zoas, mushrooms, etc.) and possibly some LPS, but I'm not to educated about corals (yet...)
Thanks,
Nick

DRO, the tank is FOWLR only for a short while, once I get the clean up crew in, I wanna go reef (Softies, ?LPS?). Should the corals be added last? Before fish? Or mix it up?
So for the salinity, should I start at 1.025 and then before getting Shrooms or whatever bring it up to 1.026-1.027? If lower salinities are better defense against diseases, why can't reefs go low?

Yellowhead Jawfish: I dont know about this specific fish in particular off the top of my head, but I have experience with both the dusky jaw and the pearly jaw. Both fish are very cool IMO, and I hope to get one or the other for my tank. They have a remarkable burrowing technique, so you need to make sure your LR base is very sturdy so nothing gets turned over, and so they dont get crushed. Tend to be very secretive fish, but awesome in behavior and in some cases, color. I dont know about the yellowhead offhand, but I'll look it up later in a book I have if I remember.

To add to that, you will need a DSB of atleast 6 inches with different sized rubble, crushed coral, etc mixed into the sand fo the jawfish to build its burrow with. Anything less than the recommended 6 inches and the jawfish wont truly be happy.

I suppose I should share this book with you, as it'll help you in many of your aquarium keeping endeavors. The Pocket Guide to Marine Fishes by Scott W. Michael has profiles on over 500 of the most common species in the trade today. The information is accurate for the most part and up to date as well. I strongly recommend picking up a copy; it will become your Bible. I never walk into a fish store without it.

The other book in conjunction with it is the same one, in the invert version, by a different author but same published. This one is newer and harder to find, but you can get a combo pack and save if you buy off http://www.amazon.com or similar sites. I have both and they go to good use almost daily.

The book by Scott Michael on reef fishes is an excellent book and one worth having. The other book on inverts by Dr. Shimek IMO is way too basic and lacking on several accounts. Its a great book for the pictures though

80*F is a little high though. I'd keep it more in the 76*-78* zone, with fluctuations of no more than one degree.

I think 76-78 is a little low.....Personally I keep my tanks between 80-82. I would suggest keeping your tank anywhere between 78-82. As for salinity since it will be FOWLR I would shoot for a salinity between 1.023 and 1.025 mainly for the critters on the live rock. If it was a FO then you could go as low as 1.020-1.023 as a preventative measure agaisnt disease. I dont really see any reason to have your salinity any higher than 1.025 though but as long as it is stable and there arent any huge swings you will be fine with 1.026....although disease wise (prevention) it would be better lower.

*Most* starfish are just for the owners delight, but brittle stars, serpent stars, and sand sifting stars often serve "helpful" purposes in home aquaria. If you're going with a sand bed, I highly recommend a sand sifting star.

Be careful with brittle stars and serpent stars...most starfish like that are opportunistic feeders and some are known to even go after your sleeping fish. Research before purchasing As for the sand sifting stars, I would be leary of them also. They will not only feed off of detrius, but also any fauna that is living in your sand bed such as worms, pods, etc. For a fish only tank (like yours) a sand sifting star would be ok though.

Blue-legged/Red-legged Hermits,

Zebra hermits, AKA left handed hermits are IMO one of the best hermits you can get for a clean up crew. They are constant workers and are very peaceful towards each other and other critters.

I keep reading up on the Six Line, and more sources say that they might peck snails or other inverts?

I have never had any problems with 6 lines picking at snails, hermits, or any other invert. As Ferret mentioned very small (read tiny) ornamental shrimp may be picked at but if the wrasse is well fed I highly doubt it will even pick at them.

Last edited by DarkRealm Overlord at 10-Aug-2005 21:37

6 lines will pick at pesty worms (like those pyramid kind that like to eat clams) and smaller shrimps and whatnot. They LOVE eating mysis and copepods, just like mandarinfish.

If you want to be on the safe side, just get a smaller one. What were you concerned about it eating?


-Ferret

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I keep reading up on the Six Line, and more sources say that they might peck snails or other inverts?

1 Royal Gramma
1 Kaudern’s/Bangaii Cardinalfish
2 False Perculas
1 Purple Firefish (decora)
3 Blue/Green Chromis
1 Six Line Wrasse
Is this too many fish?

I am going with a 4" sand bed (is this a good depth?).
So for clean-up crew is this alright?:
1 Sand Sifting Sea Star (Astropecten polycanthus?)
1 Emerald Crab
10? Hermit Crabs (which ones? Dwarf Blue Leg?)
15? Nassarius Snails
10? Astrea Snails
2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimps
1 Blood Red Fire Shrimp

My lighting is 4 65W PC tubes, 2 10000K, 2 Actinics (4.72wpg). Will I be able to get away with LPS with this lighting?

Royal Gramma, Kaudern’s/Bangaii Cardinalfish, Tomato Clown (frenatus, possibly in pair), Purple Firefish (decora), Neon Blue Goby, Blue/Green Chromis (small shoal), Six Line Wrasse (reef safe? fish safe?), Yellowhead Jawfish (don't know much on these guys).

Royal Grammas: Not one of my favorite fish, but adds a nice splash of color to any tank with it's fuschia/yellow coloration. Hardy and stays somewhat small.

Banner Cardinal: Cool looking fish, readily available, known to even spawn and breed in captivity I think. Look for tank raised or captive bred specimens if you can.

Purple Firefish: One of my favorites! From the dartfish family though, so beware of it's jumping act. Cover the tank the best you can, and possibly use eggcrate, though the most talented Houdini's have been able to escape that. Are you looking for the yellow and purple one, or the white and purple one? Just curious.

Neon Blue Goby: I'd stay away from these. They stay so small, you wont even notice them there half the time unless you get a school. IMO just not worth it for this tank. Maybe a nano later on down the road.

Blue/Green Reef Chromis: Cool little fish, in a 55 gallon tank I'd only get a trio though. They start small but can get to a rather impressive size. Make sure to get at least three to satisfy their schooling preference.

Six Line Wrasse: One of my absolute favorites. Idky, but I love this fish. It's completely reef safe, and will help in controlling pyramellids (sp?} and other pesty worms. In addition, it will wipe out the copepod and mysis populations in your tank, so add when the tank is most established. They will take prepared foods, but the natural food off the rock is best for these guys. Treat them like a more hardy mandarinfish.

Yellowhead Jawfish: I dont know about this specific fish in particular off the top of my head, but I have experience with both the dusky jaw and the pearly jaw. Both fish are very cool IMO, and I hope to get one or the other for my tank. They have a remarkable burrowing technique, so you need to make sure your LR base is very sturdy so nothing gets turned over, and so they dont get crushed. Tend to be very secretive fish, but awesome in behavior and in some cases, color. I dont know about the yellowhead offhand, but I'll look it up later in a book I have if I remember.

I suppose I should share this book with you, as it'll help you in many of your aquarium keeping endeavors. The Pocket Guide to Marine Fishes by Scott W. Michael has profiles on over 500 of the most common species in the trade today. The information is accurate for the most part and up to date as well. I strongly recommend picking up a copy; it will become your Bible. I never walk into a fish store without it.

The other book in conjunction with it is the same one, in the invert version, by a different author but same published. This one is newer and harder to find, but you can get a combo pack and save if you buy off http://www.amazon.com or similar sites. I have both and they go to good use almost daily.

As for salinity, is 1.026 a good mark? Temp 80F?

I go as far to keep my tank at 1.027, but I've learned that it's sort of a trend with many SPS keepers. I think you will be okay at that mark. The best salinity is a stable one remember! Same goes for temperature. 80*F is a little high though. I'd keep it more in the 76*-78* zone, with fluctuations of no more than one degree.

What about clean up crew (don't know much aobut this), Blue-legged/Red-legged Hermits, Turbo Snails, Stars, etc.?

*Most* starfish are just for the owners delight, but brittle stars, serpent stars, and sand sifting stars often serve "helpful" purposes in home aquaria. If you're going with a sand bed, I highly recommend a sand sifting star.

Turbo snails are algae grazers, I prefer astraea snails as they stay a little smaller. Dont go by a 1 per gallon rule, just throw in a couple as needed.

I wouldn't recommend those hermits, I have some other ideas, but I want to read up a little before I say them. If I forget to come back and post again, shoot me a PM.

It was recommended to me once to use abalones to help keep the diatoms (that nasty brown-gold algae) off the front glass. Though I have not tried this yet, I plan to give it a try when my tank is more established. The only place I have found them available so far is from http://www.liveaquaria.com but a valuable LFS might be able to get them for you.

And with my lighting, I'm thinking I can keep sofites (Zoas, mushrooms, etc.) and possibly some LPS, but I'm not to educated about corals (yet...)

I didn't do calculations on your lighting to find WPG or anything, but just know that softies need the lowest light, LPS need the next most, and SPS and clams require the highest lighting available. I'd just get MH so that you can keep whatever you want. The latter of the books I recommended will educate you about corals, as will a number of rather pricey ones available through most online aquarium supply dealers, such as Marine Depot or whatnot.

I think this is enough for you to absorb right now. HTH a bit, and good luck with your tank. Be sure to post any follow up questions.


-Ferret

EDIT: To fix messed up mark up language.

Last edited by Ferretfish at 06-Aug-2005 10:33

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Hey Im having problems stocking my 55 reef tank... If you have good luck w/ a cool setup, keep me updated.

I was told they are relatively peaceful, anyways how about some ocellaris instead?

I'd stay away from the Tomato Clowns in a 55 gallon tank, they get a bit large, and are one of the more aggressive clowns.