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" the tradition of goldfish in bowls actually makes them a fish abuser."


I believe that makes them an ANIMAL abuser.

Many people seem to forget that fish are animals too, just not as companiative as a dog, or soft and furry as a kitty cat.

Pictus are active, and pretty aggressive. They need their space. I wouldnt put them in anything smaller than a 75 gallon tank.

Gold fish are pond fish. If you don't have the space for them in a pond, find somewhere for them. If you cannot find a pond for them Rubbermaid makes great stock tanks that are half the price of a 55 gallon tank and will make an okay home for them once you do find a pond.

^_^

Indeed, and if all life has intrinsic value to you, you could make the comparison of a puppy, or a child that dies by the age of 1-2 years having been kept in a room full of its own excreta, dying of the complications of bronchial pnemonia, and ammonia burnt lungs. IMHO there should be at least a similar level of disdain and disgust aimed at people who keep any living thing in such conditions, irrelevant of species. If you saw a mammal kept in such filth with urine burns on its skin you'd be calling for the police, yet somehow with fish people seem to think its acceptable.

Not a nice mental image.

what might be the wort that can happen?

Most of the fish suffer a horrible death from poor water quality and beating each other up. If this tank was just setup, not cycled, and then stuffed full of fish they are actually going to have the benefit of a quicker death instead of a slower one but by the same means. The few survivors(if there are any) end up suffering the rest of their life due to the injuries, including nonvisible internal ones, before dying a very early death. This isn't even a worst case scenario type thing. This is what will happen when fish like goldfish are put in small tanks or tanks are badly overstocked. I suggest you start throwing around the words like animal abuse and dead fish and see if that impacts her decisions. Along with printing off any info you can find about the species she's chosen.

ok, i convinced her to get rid of it.... but i dont know where we can.... any ideas? Oh, and how many fish MAXIMUM can go in a twenty gallon? And are my sister's other fish compatable?

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

That depends entirely on the species chosen, and the equipment being used. Biomass and bioload are far more indicative of stocking than any abstract fish inches per gallon rule, and a shorthand way of thinking about that is actually weight rather than length. I prefer to think in terms of pounds per gallon rather than inches per gallon.In terms of a 20 gal, a rough guide of about 80 grams of adult fish would be about right. It does kinda work out in terms of bioload, but it depends on the orientation of the tank (surface area) and its an estimate based on a good level of power filtration (not undergravel). Obviously you also have to factor in things like swimming activity level, and aggression or territoriality.

To give you a ballpark view that would be about (in terms of fish mass only - not compatability or behavioral room):

one clown plec and a couple of blue rams.

or about 15 neon tetras or guppies

or 1 to 2 rainbow cichlids.

or about 8 swordtails, or chunky platies etc.

or 3 dwarf gourami males, and 4-6 females

or 8-12 average size cories.

Now obviously thats not how you'd choose to stock a tank because youd crowd the bottom, or the top, or the midwater , but biologically the tank will handle the load if it has a decent filter and oxygenation.

Work on an average of about 4 grams of fish per gallon for levels of slight understocking. It works from tiny fish like bettas at 10-12 grams which makes 2.5 gal (which we know keeps them alive although its not especially humane), all the way up to oscars and adult veiltail goldies at over 454 grams,and 113 gallons, which would be a realistic size for such fish. For more humane stocking with a good margin of error, and excellent water quality work on a 3 grams of fish per gallon. At the lower end though, I wouldnt consider any tank of less than 5 gallon worth keeping fish in because of the need for exercise. Start with 5 gals and them work upwards with the equation for stocking estimates for higher numbers.

A 10 kilo arowana should need around 2500 gallon at the "humane" rate, it all works out rather nicely in terms of environmental room, but in general terms, to compensate for increasing efficiency in biological processes, you knock back the equation total about 25% at over 500 gallon 50% at over 1000 gallon, and then 75% at 10,000 gallon.

The heaviest mekong giant catfish at 646lbs would therefore need an earth shattering 73321 gallons, although at that size, a water body will hit a new level of bacterial process, and you may be able to more than halve that, but I woudn't, one of the advantages of a water space that large is that due to the complexity of fauna in that size body of water (lets face it , you wont be cleaning it. lol) the bacterial and plant processes become so superefficient that nitrate will no longer be an issue. A truly humongous tank may never need water changes, much in the same way a lake never does. I dont think anyone in their right mind wants to feed a fish that big. Basically the bigger you go the cleaner tanks get, its fairly consistant equation. Someone with a 200 gal tank will enjoy lower proportionate nitrate production than someone with a 10 gal will with the same grams per gallon equation. Thats why bigger tanks are safer. Somone with a 55 to 120 gal will be much more likely to get away with overstocking for short periods than an owner of a 5-10 gallon tank, yet the people most likely to overstock by habit will be beginners with smaller tanks. Nature of the game unfortunately. The whole bioload vs tankspace and fish weight scale, is a sliding scale that has to be adjusted, hence all the confusion.

With pictus and the goldfish gone there shouldnt be any big compatability issues. After that its just the numbers you have to worry about.


Either thats explained everything perfectly or confused the hell out of you

howdo i tell the weight of the fish?

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

lol, get your eye in, guess even. Actually its not as difficult as it sounds. You get a sense of it eventually.

ok, so now i know about how many fish i can get. thanks u guys!

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

Does anybody know good websites that say how certain kinds of fish breed?

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

After awhile of maintaining tanks you get a feel for how many of what type of fish fit best in a given size of tank. Until then it's probably best to just ask. Name what species your interested in and what type of tank setup you want.

Best way to find information on breeding a certain fish is to do a search on google.com or whatever your favorite search engine is. Then you'll often come up with several first hand accounts as well as various profiles on different sites that will each give you a little bit more information. If your looking into catfish species though your first stop should be planetcatfish.com.

Also keep in mind if you want to breed fish most need a species setup so other fish won't eat the eggs or fry and many require you to setup a 2nd tank to grow out the fry. If you like raising fish but only have 1 tank some good fish to look into are cichlids and gouramis. These are less likely to eat their own fry and most will care for at least the eggs so you won't require a 2nd tank for growout. Shelldwellers are interesting little cichlids for a small tank and for the gouramis dwarf or pearls aren't too hard to get ahold of and breed. There are also some smaller gouramis but they are harder to find and harder to breed. Livebearers will also multiply in 1 tank but they will usually overstock the tank very quickly. It's best not to get into breeding livebearers unless you have several large tanks to seperate all the male and female fry until you find someone to take them. Otherwise your better off only keeping male livebearers.

For the fish you can't keep try asking a store if they'll take them for free or know anyone with a large enough tank to keep them. Most stores here will take in free fish you no longer can provide a proper home for.

I'll be nice and give you a reasonable guess on the adult weights of the species you listed.

Dwarf Gourami -males 10-17 grams females 7-10, double if for hybrids that have been split with indian gouramis, the blue strains are typically smaller and you can take a gram or two off.

Sunset dwarf Gourami -same

Lyretail Molly 5-8g

Sunset coral Dwarf platy 7-10g female, 4-8g male

swordtail - depends on whether is pure or hybrid, or selectively bred for size, anything from 7-16 g

im getting a few today, i heard you can only get 3 new fish at a time. is this true? how many fish can i get when i have 0 in the tank?

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

A few a time is a good thing, as it gives the bacterial colony in the filter time to expand to cope with the increase waste gently, thusly minimising the risk of ammonia and nitrite spikes. If the fish are small and about a third to half grown, 4-5 would not be excessive, if already fully adult perhaps limit that to 2-3 specimens. 4-5 days between batches will be time enough for the bacterial colony to adjust at average temperatures with sufficient oxygen and water flow.

This of course depends on it already being cycled. In an uncycled tank the fish would be exposed to ammonia and nitrite spikes anyway, but then you'd still want to take it easy to limit the severity of them.

i moved my 3 danios from my ten gallon into the 20, and bought 5 fish. one Gourami, 2 sunset dwarf platies, and 2 cremecical Lyretail Mollies. my gourami, whenever a fish passes himk, he feels it with his barb things. Is that ok? And i think on e of my cremecical mollies is pregnant. anybody know how to tell if she is, or if it is a she?


What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

Gourami's feel everything, its fine, and as for the mollies the males have a gonapodium by the anal fins.

heres a photo comparative, mollies are pretty similar.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://users.pandora.be/frits.bruch/aquarium/mnvrouw.jpg&imgrefurl=http://users.pandora.be/frits.bruch/aquarium/mnvrouw.htm&h=406&w=786&sz=32&hl=en&start=33&tbnid=R-ZrI6DnitcF9M:&tbnh=74&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2Bgonopodium%26start%3D18%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

? whats that? is it the anal fins' shape?

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

if it is, i have 2 females. How do i tell if they are pregnant???

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

A gonapodium is a specially shaped appendage with a rigid segmented structure nestling between the anal fins, or in some species a partial modification of those fins that allows the male to impregnate the female. Theres no miracle way to tell if the fish is pregnant other than a large size and eventually the presence of fry, but they can store sperm for a number of weeks to months from a single encounter with a male in a petshop, so even if you have no males its still possible she may be pregnant, and produce quite a number of fry for some time.

Well, either that or just fat.

ok, ill keep an eye on them!

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....

my 20 gallon has a good level of PH now, somkewhere around 7.5, so im now going to test for ammonia and so on....

What came first? the chicken or the egg? No really.....