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SubscribeFish To Avoid!!!
iltat
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The idea of specialist is more relegated to just study, study, and study. None of us will say that you can't keep Knifefish or Puffers without years of experience, just be prepared for the specialist care instructions that go along with them. We care that no one gets discouraged (by having Irridescent Sharks continually dying in their ten-gallon because an LFS told them they'd be fine) and that the fish that are out there being sold receive the best care and life that they can. If you think you have the ability to provide that, then I wish you luck and will be waiting with bated breath to either answer any questions you have or listen to any success stories you can provide...

PM/email/msg me if you have any questions/comments regarding me or my knowledge or if you want me to read a thread.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile Homepage AIM MSN Yahoo PM Edit Report 
bscal
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Great article! Wish I had read something like that before we got into fish-keeping... fortunately we started out with platies because my toddler (13 mos at the time) was fascinated with them. What a way to pick our first fish! Anyways, thanks for writing this one... we're thinking about a 4th tank but with a busy little one I can't spend all my time on maintenance. So I'll be avoiding the fish on the list...

-Beth
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Jason_R_S
 
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seedkiros and antifishman are right...most species will be ok so long as they eat shelled foods at least once a week. however, I've been told that with South American puffers (Colomessus assellus) it is necessary to trim their teeth once every six months or so. Pufferpunk would have much more information about this. I know she has had to trim teeth before and has given advice to others on how to do this.

Jason
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Callatya
 
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hmmm, cali hun, i'm now at a loss as to what to keep!

What about a *good beginner fish* section to this?

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Freddy Krueger
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maybe as beginner fish they are no good. but for the people with tanks and the experience those fish are exellent.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile Homepage MSN PM Edit Report 
Shinigami
 
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Hehe, those Pacus are like living wavemakers.

Just a small problem. Pseudoplatysoma tigrinum and related 'only' get around 4' long. Perhaps you were thinking of Brachyplatysoma filamentosum (Piraiba), which gets 12' long. Fortunately, few sell this relatively plain fish.

Fortunately most Bichirs fall within a 1' to 2' range, the smaller ones appropriate for newbies that happen to start off with 55 or 75 gallon tanks, since they can be relatively hardy... :%)

Arapaima pic:



About the Pangasius... Both Paroon Sharks and Mekongs are starting to enter the hobby. Yes, I said Paroons and Mekongs, the 10' relatives of the Irridescent Shark. Sad, but at least they're still only restricted to the specialist big-fish sect of keepers.

Another brackish fish that one may come across are the Monos, similar to Scats in how they get large and move out to sea as adults.

Discus have long been touted as the fish requiring the highest level of skill and expertise to maintain. Though they're still not beginner fish, they are child's play compared to stingrays. This fish is for those who do 50% water changes once or even twice a week. They also are quite active, so feeding twice or even three times a day will keep your ray fat and happy. UV sterilizers are also recommended for these since they do not react well to medicines. You also better get used to scrubbing that huge tank of theirs since you usually can't keep them with plecs, which have a habit of sucking on stingrays. In short, these fish are not only expensive to buy, but they're expensive to maintain.

Nice article. I love a lot of big fishes since they're size makes them quite a sight to behold, but stay away if you don't have the space to maintain these giants! They're called tankbusters for a reason! [/font]

[span class="edited"][Edited by Shinigami 2004-06-20 11:06][/span]

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Jason_R_S
 
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Very nice article.

I do agree with Shini about the bichirs though in that several species, including the most commonly sold P. senegalus, only grows to ~12-13". However, some bichirs can be stubborn about their food. Some will only take live food and may take some time to wean them onto prepared foods. This might make them less appropriate for beginners.

I would add puffers to that list as well. These are definitely not beginner fish because of their special dietary requirements, the possible need for teeth trimming, and they are more fragile than a lot of fish because they are scale-less. Not to mention, most species are at least moderately aggressive, while others are full scale killers. One final problem with puffers is that most lfs don't know enough about them to properly ID what they're selling and will commonly sell freshwater puffers as brackish and vice versa.

Jason

*edit, I just noticed you did touch on puffers at the end of the "brackish" paragraph

[span class="edited"][Edited by jason_r_s 2004-06-19 11:43][/span]
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile Yahoo PM Edit Report 
fish1
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shinigami is right not all bichir are big or get big mine are only 2 in and 3 in!!!!! but mine eat like pigs when they want to!!!!!!! i didnt read the hole thing of caliseea of whatever but you shoud add balas and tinfoils if you all ready havent!!!!!! SHINIGAMI that is one awsome pic thanks for showing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Callatya
 
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TEETH TRIMMING??

You trim the puffers teeth?? With like what? nail clippers? a dremel?

How odd! it never occurred to me!

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Jason_R_S
 
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TEETH TRIMMING??

You trim the puffers teeth?? With like what? nail clippers? a dremel?


I don't personally trim my puffer's teeth, but I know of several people who do. Most puffers will be fine without having their teeth trimmed so long as they eat enough shelled foods. A few species however, like Colomessus Assellus (South American Puffer), have teeth that grow much more quickly than most and require in many cases that their teeth be trimmed.

Most people use cuticle clippers to trim the teeth after sedating the puffer with clove oil. I hope to never have to do this myself.

Jason
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile Yahoo PM Edit Report 
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how would you trim a dwarf puffer's teeth...
jk
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Anti Fishman
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Feeding shelled food, like snails, should be enough to trim those tiny teeth.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
seedkiros
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How to trim teeth?

For freshwater puffers you trim their teeth by giving them snails, which they will glady eat. You do this atleast once a week. You can ussualy get plain small pond snails from lfs for free, and just feed ur puffers those, and as they eat them, they trim their teeth on the hard shells. Don't feed them malaysian trumpet snaills though, cause they have a very hard shell, and i believe puffers can crack their teeth on them or something.

EDIT: ahh beat me to it fishman

[span class="edited"][Edited by seedkiros 2004-06-19 12:42][/span]
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile AIM MSN PM Edit Report 
Calilasseia
 
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Things NOT To buy For A First Aquarium

After my little piece on setting up a first aquarium for beginners, I thought I'd take time out and warn newcomers away from certain fishes. I mentioned a few in that other article that should be avoided, and with good reason. Here I thought I'd list the 'Things To Avoid' in more detail. Usually due to size, or because they need far more TLC than even the most committed beginner could hope to lavish upon them. If you're in medical school, they don't let you perform open heart surgery from day one, and for good reasons. Likewise, you don't touch the fishes listed below until you've done your several years' hard learning. Read on ...


Pacus - I've already mentioned that these should be avoided, because they grow to be BIG. Big fishes are nicknamed 'tankbusters', and in this case, the nickname is apporpriate, because if it feels cramped, a Pacu is capable of crashing its way through the front glass. If they do this in a large aquarium (say 500 gallons UK), then the water damage that will result to your home will lead to you being blacklisted by insurance companies. They spook easily, too, which means that if they haven't enough space, a flood disaster on the scale of Noah's Ark in your living room is on the cards. What's more, if you make this mistake, you'll earn the ultimate in shame, namely scorn and derision from Shini.


Red Tailed Catfish and other Big Pims - I've already said that an adult Red Tailed Catfish is big enough to tow a rowing boat. No, I'm not kidding. And, it isn't even the biggest of the 'Pims', the catfish Family that contains some outright monsters. Biggest of them all is the Tiger Shovelnose, Pseudoplatystoma fasciatum. It's even bigger than it's name. This behemoth reaches NINE FEET as an adult. What size aquarium would you need to keep it happy? Try 40x15x6. That's FEET, not inches. A whopping 23,000 gallons UK. Most people I know don't live in houses that big. This is either public aquarium material, a fish for Shini (who knows how to look after these things and knows how to do it right) or best left in the Amazon.


Arowanas - Again, don't get these because they're big. Not quite as big as a Tiger Shovelnose catfish, but big enough to give you LOTS of maintenance headaches. And they jump. These things can pluck fruit from overhanging tree branches in their home nearly six feet above the water. Imagine that flying through the air in your living room. Better still, don't. Leave well alone!


Bichirs and other 'Jurassics' - Again, too big. And in some cases, with specialised requirements, that means that they are best left to the experts such as Toirtis, who studies them professionally. Plus, there is NO WAY ON EARTH that you're going to own an aquarium big enough for an Arapaima. I'll let Shini show you his photograph. That should say more than even my words can encapsulate succinctly, but suffice it to say that this is one the largest, if not THE largest, freshwater fish in the world. It actually makes an adult Tiger Shovelnose look puny. Tremble at the thought ...


Electric 'Stunning' Fishes of ANY Kind - Occasionally, I've seen Electric Catfish offered for sale. Buy one, and you are deranged. Want 350 volts up your arm? That's the kind of kick these things deliver. And they reach a metre in length as adults. Worse still are Electric Eels. These reach 7 feet as adults, and have been measured in the laboratory blasting out 950 volts at a current of 1 ampere plus. Electric Eels can fell a 2,000 pound water buffalo with their shocks. Buying one of these makes you certifiably insane.


Freshwater Rays - Shini added these to my list (thanks Shini), for several reasons. One, they're too big (again). Two, they have VERY specialised maintenance requirements, and are best left to experts. Three, the sting in the tail is coated with a venomous slime that is dangerous to humans. A large specimen can drive that pointed, barbed weapon clean through your hand.


Lungfishes - Fortunately, you won't see many of these, as they're all CITES listed. But if you do see one offered for sale, please don't buy it. Again, they need expert handling, grow to be huge, in short, don't do it.


Piranhas - These fishes have a fearsome reputation in South America. One look at those teeth and you'll know why. A lone one won't attack you - they're like coyotes, their courage increases with numbers. But if you put 30 in an aquarium together, watch your fingers. Too often sold to people who want something to scare the neighbours and small children with. And again, needing specialist care. Plus, they are shoaling fishes, and keeping one on its own is cruel. Worst of all, they have a habit of being bought by the kind of people who buy big, vicious, uncontrollable dogs so that they can prowl the neighbourhood and posture as 'hard'. Which makes life more difficult for the dedicated aquarists who know how to keep them properly.


Pangasius Catfishes - frequently sold as 'Iridescent Sharks', these are shoaling fishes that decline and die if they are kept alone. Plus, they grow to be over a metre long. Keeping one on its own is cruel, and you'll need a swimming pool to do a shoal of them justice.


Large, Aggressive Cichlids - Now there are plenty of people on this board who keep things such as Dempseys or Jaguar Cichlids. But these people know what they're doing. You're a beginner, and as yet, you don't. Spend time learning to keep something less demanding first, then branch out once you've acquired some skills. And ONLY if you're prepared to dedicate a LOT of time, effort and money to their proper care. Yes, some of these big Cichlids are gorgeous to look at, especially in breeding colours, and offer the additional appeal of highly developed, intelligent creatures with intricate family lives and a standard of parental care of their offspring that puts numerous humans to shame. But think how doubly cruel it is to mistreat something as intelligent as these fishes, even unintentionally. Don't touch until you've cut your teeth on a wide range of other fishes first, and only then if you're dedicated. And don't, for crying out loud, let cute looking juveniles that appear to be well-behaved fool you. In a dealer aquarium, they're crowded to saturation point and beyond, and have their instincts suppressed because of this. You take them home, and suddenly, it's gloves off time. Carnage.


Discus - Please, please don't try and start out with Discus. Why do you think they have their own forum here on this Board? It's not just because they are gorgeous show stoppers. It's because they are specialised fishes requiring specialised treatment, at the hands of people who really know what they are doing. Discus are demanding enough to become a lifetime's devotion all on their own, and some of the people in the Discus forum are full-time Discus-only devotees. Even 'bog standard' Brown Discus need more TLC than you can give them at this stage, let alone the fancy ones with iridescent cobalt stripes on a pineapple and lavender base colour that some German breeder has unleashed upon the world after 20 years' struggling to produce them. Think of Discus keeping as a sort of religion, that you get to participate in after a long period of initiation as a novice. OK, that's partly a joke, but only partly. Discus keeping is such an involved pastime that even the experts are still learning new tricks. You know you're into something different when those around you start talking about topics such as trace element chelation and other intricacies that make your eyes glaze over ...


Fancy or 'Show' Strains Of Livebearers, Bettas etc - Things such as Mollies and Bettas have been a staple of the aquarium trade for years. Trouble is, there are now highly developed fancy strains of Guppies, Mollies, Bettas and quite a few other things in circulation. Which are MUCH more delicate than their less fancy kin. Some show Guppies and Bettas practically need an intensive care unit to keep them alive. Can you run one of these? No? My point exactly. While you might think a purple Hi-Fin Lyretail Swordtail would look good in your community aquarium, chances are it would last less than 24 hours. Fancy show fishes are intensively bred, in some cases inbred, to the point of being completely incapable of surviving without an expert's tender loving care. In any case, top-flight specimens will be too expensive, as some of these show fishes change hands for four and even five figure sums.


Brackish Water Fishes - Quite a few of these end up being sold in freshwater. Not good. Glassfishes, for example, are abused horribly. These belong in a specialist brackish aquarium. And usually need living food to survive. Weaning these onto dead foods is possible, but again, an expert's task. Worse still, Glassfishes have a habit of being dyed in ridiculous colours to make them more saleable to people who don't know any better. I'll come onto this in a moment. Other brackish fishes you may come across include Scats (grow big, eat plants, lose their colours when adult), Halfbeaks (small but delicate, need specialist care) and some Puffers (all require some degree of specialist care, and some become huge). Leave well alone.


Dyed Fishes - Not content with the gorgeous raiment of colours that our fishes present to us naturally, and the multitude of colour variations produced by selective breeding, someone thought it would be a good idea to speed things up a bit, and artificially colour living fishes. No, this is NOT a good idea! It is CRUEL BEYOND BELIEF. Want to know how it's done? In some cases, the dye is injected. In others, the fish have their protective slime coat stripped off, and the dye mordanted onto the skin using corrosive chemicals. Think of those hideous Mengele experiments on twins at Auschwitz and you get the idea. Many of the victims of this evil practice go on to lead shortened and painful lives. Imagine having root canal dental work done without anaesthetic, and you'll have an idea what it's like for the fishes. Be a good global citizen, show that you care about what happens to your fellow living creatures, and make it plain that you will NOT touch dyed fishes with a 40 foot barge pole. And that you think the practice stinks. Which it does. [/End Rant]


Freshwater Butterfly Fishes - Again, these oddities are best left to experienced aquarists, who are prepared to spend time, money and effort creating as natural an environment for them as is possible in the aquarium. Apart from the fact that they are capable of snacking upon your Neon Tetras (look how big that mouth is for crying out loud!) they are also freshwater flying fishes. They JUMP. You could find yourself watching one of these fly six feet across the living room chasing an imaginary fly. Because in the wild, that's one of the things they eat - flying insects. Which they catch on the wing. They're superbly athletic at this, and in the right setting, can make fascinating aquarium occupants. But the right setting isn't a beginner's community aquarium!


Knife Fishes - These oddballs are fascinating to watch. They can swim backwards and forwards with equal ease. Watching them do this is like seeing a helicopter fly sideways for the first time. You wonder how it's done. Trouble is, Knife Fishes of assorted kinds grow to be too big (many reach 2 feet in length), and again, need a degree of specialist care.


Big Plecs - Big Plecs have their fans on this Board. But these people know how to look after them. And are prepared to spend money giving them a decent home. Also, learning how to look after things like this takes time and intellectual effort. Which the assorted Big Plec keepers here have expended in spades. You're not ready to look after big Panaque species or monsters like Acanthicus adonis yet. Wait about five years and cut your teeth on something less demanding first, if these appeal to you.


Species New To The Hobby - Yes, there's a certain cachet in being the first to keep the latest new L-number sucker catfish, exotic Corydoras that's just been discovered in some out of the way place in Venezuela, or brand new (and iridescent purple) Tetra. Trouble is, because they're new, nobody knows how to look after them! Experts can make inspired guesses, based upon a plethora of information such as habitat details, what other fishes they were found with, and any observational data obtained from the wild by the collectors. But you have to learn an awful lot about fishkeeping before you can do the same! Wait until the experts have passed judgement, and if they decide the newcomer is tough enough to be added to the list of beginners' fishes, then rejoice. But DON'T go out and splurge vast sums of money on new species until the experts have given them the once-over, and certified them suitable for you, the beginner. As an example, Black Morpho Tetras, Poecilocharax weitzmani, look utterly gorgeous, but they are 'expert only' fishes, that need live food (specific types of live food at that) and very careful attention to aquarium furnishing detail. A few have just started to appear here in the UK, but they're best left to advanced aquarists (e.g., long-standing members of Characin Societies). Likewise, leave Cochu's Blues alone, no matter how gorgeous you think they'll look in your aquarium, because a week later, without specialist care, they'll be dead.


Take it from me. There are more than enough hardy, attractive fishes for the beginner to select from, to keep anyone happy. There are something like 100 small Tetra species, 25 different hardy small Barbs, 20 or so Corydoras catfishes that can live in the community aquarium, plus over a dozen small Rasboras, several Rainbow Fishes that can be recommended to those lucky enough to begin the hobby with a decent sized aquarium, several small hardy Gouramis (and one or two bigger ones like Blue Gouramis for those starting with the space), not to mention the 'staples' such as Platies that come in enough different colour schemes to match your wallpaper if you want one, but are still hardy enough to survive in a beginner's aquarium. You can still put together a sparkling, colourful collection of fishes in a resplendent aquarium that looks like a piece of river in the living room with these fishes, plus those things I keep harping on about elsewhere like planning, patience, effort and a willingness to learn. So go on out there and do just that, and branch out into more challenging things once you've learned the ropes! Remember, even world famous names like Hans Joachim Richter had to start somewhere, and I bet he started with something familiar and hardy ...



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile Homepage PM Edit Report 
me is already in use
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"how would you trim a dwarf puffer's teeth...
jk"

"jk"

yes, I know how to trim a dwarf puffer's teeth with snails, etc, but thank you anyway
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
me is already in use
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Not your guy's fault
I should know sarcasm can't be shown on the internet

unless of course you do that [sarcasm][\sarcasm] thing
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
wheezo
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Very interesting article! TWO THUMBS UP! =) I loved it, it was informative and humorous imo. I love big fishes, you just gave me a list of options for fishes to get.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile AIM PM Edit Report 
Shinigami
 
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I love big fishes, you just gave me a list of options for fishes to get.


I like'em too, but if you want a lot of them you'll be setting up a tropical pond with a dehumidifier or an air exchanger. Some of these fish are not only not for newbies, but also really not for the average fishkeeper without a lot of cash to spend on a set-up.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Shinigami 2004-06-20 10:17][/span]

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
lunker101
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My dream would be to have a shallow pool for a full-grown tiger shovelnose, i love em but HUGE . Fish1, sure your bichir is only about 3" NOW, but u need to think about full-grown size, not current. Great Article
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Shinigami
 
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LoL, your dream is more modest than MY dream...

For those who like Shovelnoses, Limas are cool, and can be kept in 18" wide tanks. Though reported to reach 20" and more in the wild, they usually don't gain much more than 12" in the home aquarium, though in tropical ponds they do seem to grow larger. Also, not all Pims get large. Indeed, the South American Bumblebee Catfish is not only a small species, but can be classified as an 'anti-tankbuster' with it's 2-3" max length. Fish of the genus Pimelodus (ex. P. ornatus, P. pictus, etc.) usually don't get more than 12" long, and so are great candidates for the larger aquariums that haven't enter the three- or four-digit categories of gallonage.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
Demosthenes9
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I'm just curious as to what the fancy betta livebearer bit was all about.

I have a gorgeous dalmation lyretail Molly (I refuse to buy these from chainstores as they are NEVER healthy. The lyre is perfectly curved, not box shaped like some of the ones you see at the store, and he's been quite hardy thus far. I also keep several types of fancy tailed bettas, and while their strains are more sensitive, they haven't been too bad either. I think the Halfmoon has the greatest issues, since it is quite a strain to carry that huge tail around, but I think the fish manages without life support.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:23Profile PM Edit Report 
xxmrbui3blesxx
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Technically, it's the current that kills you. When you touch a doorknob after shuffling your feet across a carpet, 30,000 volts of electricity go through you, but there's hardly any current.
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lunker101
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All this talk makes me want to return my 90g setup (never even opened anything, renevating the basement so im waiting till all the work is done) for something more along the lines of a 300
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