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based on this thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/The%20Hospital/53009.html?200501141901 I'm going to wait a week before adding any more fish. I don't want to risk another Ich outbreak.

However, after adding the fresh water and conditioning it I went ahead and tested and as I expected the nitrite levels were still high even after 2 days. I'm guessing it's because I have no fish and residual ammonia/waste still in the gravel etc. being converted. Will adding "cycle" without having fish help this condition? Maybe another water change? OR will I be safe if I add fish under this circumstance to get the cycle going?

Last edited by Iron Mike at 16-Jan-2005 10:08

What process did you use of those recommended? Did you empty and refill, thereby rinsing the gravel, or did you just do a partial empty, or just let it run empty.

I would not add fish, under any circumstance if any water remained in the tank just after an ich outbreak killed everyone. With the lifecycle affected by temperatures and other variables, it would be too risky. I would overexaggerate the empty time and let it go for two weeks at a higher temp - like 86, without fish. In the meanwhile, do a few gravel vacs, right to the glass, to pull out any detritus.

You may also consider having a bag of water tested at the lfs and compare to the numbers you are getting. Maybe there is an issue there.

Now, if you are interested in keeping this tank in the cycle for the next two weeks, should you go that route, you can use ordinary household ammonia (no dyes, detergents, or perfumes). Just add a drop or two daily or even every other day, then back off a few days before you add fish, measuring ammonia, nitrites to make sure it is zero, and nitrates have risen. I've done this with quarantine tanks in between stocks to keep them seeded. Using food is more dangerous imho because the food rots and we know bacteria and fungus grow on the rotting food.

Patience will pay off greatly.

Do you have the ability to create a 5 gallon quarantine set up? It could spare you heavy losses should you get partially stocked and then introduce someone who wipes out half the tank or more. It happens. You don't need it for your first round of fish, but for those thereafter. All it takes is a little bag water from an lfs tank where there was a recent ich outbreak or when it is in the early stages, not yet quite visible, to spread throughout your tank. One drop of water can do it. I used a 5 gallon as a staging area. If you were to set it up now with a small filter, like a penguin mini and a 25w visitherm heater, you could use that ammonia and some bacterial starter to seed it with fishless cycling. You won't need it for a good 4-6 weeks if you stock in 3-4 week intervals, rather than trying to rush the full stock. Just enough time to seed such a hospital/quarantine. It can then serve as a hospital tank later and save money. Larger tanks take so much more meds - too much for one sick fish.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 16-Jan-2005 10:19

I emptied the water but did not rinse the gravel. I currently do NOT have a heater so raising the temp at his point is not an option.

Then time is needed. Adding fish before a couple of weeks with an empty tank, would only invite a chance of ich in the new batch. Ich is often present in many tanks, but lays in wait for a fish's immunity to drop, usually due to stress. Unlike us, their immune system is driven heavily by stress or lack thereof. Transfer is one of the ultimate stressors and if even one freswimming parasite should hatch at the time they are trying to adjust, BANG!

I'm not sure I'm following why you don't have a heater if you plan on keeping trops? That could have contributed in the first place. Especially, in a 10 gallon where house temp fluctuations, drafts, etc can cause wide swings in little time. Larger tanks are less of a problem. All it takes is for the temp to dip 2-3 degrees in a few hours to cause temp shock. Is it a logistical problem, like not having enough plugs or not enough funds?

If you consider a heater, here is one I use because it is easy to control. A 50w would be all that is necessary. Be careful with some of the cheaper submersibles that have very difficult to turn, knobs. They look like they are rubber coated. You can't hardly tell when you've turned it and the risk of boiling your fish is greater. If you get an old fashioned clamp on (cheapest), be sure you invest in one with a cap so you can't accidentally bump the temp up or down. It is important with these types to unplug with every water change, otherwise you risk an explosion if dry air hits it during a change. That's where submersibles are so sweet.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3852&N=2004+22787

Here's more that includes ich lifecycle details. Since 86 is optimum operating temp for them, it speeds their lifecycle up, making them hatch sooner than later. When they find no host in the tank, they die.

http://www.aquamaniacs.net/ich.html

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/IchPrevention.html

I'm not advocating anyone's treatment plan, as I would use the manufacturers recommendation. However, what they discuss on the lifecycle helps explain why people keep getting it back again.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 16-Jan-2005 10:56

It was a starter kit that I bought. No heater included. I did not have any pre-conception about what type of fish I was going to keep in the long run. I originally added goldfish because I had the notion that they were hardy and I could keep them in cooler water. That and my 3 y/o daughter insisted that we return home with a fish. I certainly know better now.

I didn't do my research first(no test kit and knew zip about cycling and water change intervals), because of that I'm taking this opportunity to re-start the correct way and stock the tank appropriately. Thank goodness for places like FishProfiles.

Aww - such a wonderful parent .

Hang in there. I must say that even tho goldies are cool water fish, they can develop ich and velvet from the temp fluctuations in an unheated tank - unless you have it in an interior room that isn't subject to breezes and drafts. Many who have them in larger tanks, don't bother with heaters because even if a window were open for a bit, large tanks don't cool that quickly. Small ones turn on a dime.

I don't know if there are other cool water fish, but the white clouds would be perfect if your tank is in a stable temp room. The challenge is getting the mates, like the catfish and that. The tank wants to be minimally stable at a good 75F, give or take a degree at the least for a good tropical setting. Some keep it higher, like 78, but because of my white clouds, I like to not press it where they are uncomfortable.

Hang in there, you are asking so many good questions. Fishkeeping in the beginning is a lot of work and a pain because of the learning curve. Once you get past it, fishkeeping is a breeze. I do water changes once weekly that take about 15 minutes on my 20 long. I clean the filter about monthly or when it slows, if sooner. I check water levels daily and to make sure the pump is moving. And, I take a quick count of the fish daily as I feed just to get a sense check. One dead fish can really raise ammonia. I generally clean the glass inside and out on 3 sides bi-weekly or weekly, if needed. Other than that, it is not much work and much enjoyment. .

Last edited by Cory_Di at 16-Jan-2005 12:54