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It almost seems like plecos produce more waste than the amount of food they eat. They can leave piles and piles of it behind and combined with the amount of body mass they have they contribute to the nitrate levels in the tank greatly. My royal could completely clog a penguin 330 intake strainer after a couple hours of sitting in front of it. This is right after cleaning it and when the royal was still a little baby.
He more than tripled that size before I lost him and still wasn't full grown. I moved him to a 90g with a cannister filter and both a larger and higher up intake strainer before then. Large plecos can stock even a large tank all by themselves and many pleco species get large. Nearly all the commonly sold plecos and especially the ones labelled commons(potential 3' pleco there) get huge. Alot of stores will state the size of a pleco as being much smaller than it actually can reach if kept alive long enough. You need to carefully research the potential size of any pleco before buying it. They also can have more than a 20year lifespan so plan to have them around a long time.

Man, that's amazing... I had no idea fish could be so "messy.." lol

lol ScottF, me neither.

Thanks for the info Sham. I know about fish getting big. The one fish I rescued from the "great flush" is an "Irridescent Shark". I got the bigger tank because he was getting too big for my old one. Of course, after a little research I find out he can get as big, if not bigger, than 2 feet! If he outgrows this tank I'm not sure what I'll do with him. I also found out that some LFS won't volunteer info about how big a fish will get. You have to inquire and research, research, research.
I was heartbroken when I found out how big the ghostknife I was "eyeing" gets.

ScottF,

I meant to ask, how are the levels on your tank? How are the fish doing? Just wondering since we started our tanks at almost the same time. I'm still having issues with Nitrites being high.

I hope all is well!

ELT888,
That's horrid that your LFS won't supply information, even when asked! Some of the LFS where I used to live in Maryland would put up little cards with basic info, of course it was never enough and people still made unwise choices (I overheard one woman say "they need salt ?? " when she was looking at the SW fish )

You can try calling around to any local zoo or aquarium, sometimes universities have research tanks (although you might want to make sure the university doesnt do further "research". Friends or family might know of a library or resturant that might have a display tank (especially important in the case of the resturant!) The ID shark can get much larger than 2 feet. A quick google search will pull up ones that are at least twice that size.

^_^

ELT888- My Ammonia is steadily rising, slowly... I have yet to see a reading for Nitrites and my pH has beens teady around 8.4, seems high to me. There's a link below to my tank log with all the parameters since I began on May 28th.

I have been using test strips to check my chem but at the suggestion of several people on here, I have ordered an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals liquid freshwater test kit. Evidently the liquids are much more accurate.

I have two of the original 4 Tiger Barbs left, fighting off a batch of Ich but they are hanging in there...

What's your tank all about?? How big, stock? etc??

[link]http://www.fishprofiles.com/logbooks/tanks.aspx?uid=15467&tank=223 [/link]

Babelfish,

Yeah, this idiot is the same one that told me I could put my fish from my established tank into the new tank after 24 hours. Then after asking him about the Ghostknife, (friendly, safe for my other fish, etc.) he told me sure, they will be fine, he won't bother your other fish at all. Then I do some research and find out that they get very large and will snack on smaller fish! Well, he lost what could have been a very good customer.

I have heard of another place that everyone keeps bragging about and I thought I would check there. It's quite a ways from my house but if he gives accurate and truthful advice, and his fish are as healthy as everyone says, it'll be worth it.

I did see that the ID shark can get as large as 4 feet in the wild but heard most in captivity only get up to 2 feet. I will have to find another home for him if he gets 4 feet. Yikes!

ScottF,

My old tank (which I will use as a QT as soon as it cycles too) was a 20g Hex. I now have a 75g Rec. I setup on May 30th. Currently, I only have my 4 original fish in there. One 7 inch ID Shark, 1 Midnight Catfish, 1 7 inch Dojo Loach, and 1 Black Phanton Tetra. Hopefully, they will all survive my big Oops. So far my Ammonia hasn't been too bad, this week steady at .25ppm, Nitrites are steady at 2-3ppm, and Nitrates are steady at 10. I just can't get those Nitrites down. Has me worried. They have been steady at 2ppm for at least a week now and I'm afraid it will have a bad effect on my little friends. They all seem very happy and healthy, but that doesn't mean they are or will stay that way. I've had all of them for a couple of years now and I am attached. The shark and catfish were 2 rescues from certain "flushing". So I'd hate to see anything happen to them.

I hope you can resolve your Ick situation. I have heard that can be a bear to get rid of. I'll keep my fingers crossed for both of us.

You'll be surprised what you end up doing for your fish. I've been known to drive an hour plus for the better LFS rather than the one 5 minutes away.

^_^

ELT, I hope you're able to keep your little friends safe and sound.... Sounds like some awesome fish to me! Thanks for sharing your details...

ELT & ScottF just keep doing the water changes more than once a week and it will keep the params to where they need to be. I think if you do that for a couple more weeks im sure you will see some improvement on the parameters.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Thanks Monster... But I do have one question... As I am currently cycling the tank, would it be wise to make those water changes? I don't want to delay the cycling process any.

Thanks...

You can do water changes as long as you dont go crazy on the amount, 10-20% water changes will be fine, as long as you are conditioning the water properly, and are leaving the chemical conditioners enough time to react with chlorine and chloramines.Its a common beginners mistake to act too heavily or too quickly and inadvertantly kill off the young bacterial culture. As long as your gentle and thorough, and avoid massive temperature fluctuations, the chances are the bacterial culture will continue unhindered.

How much of an effect a water change has is always dependant on the stocking level, as the fish and detritus are the constant source of food for the bacteria, so say a 20% change in a 120 gal with a couple of danios in it will have an effect on the filter bacteria,as the proportionate ammonia and consequently available food for the filter will be low, but a couple in a 30 is proportionately bigger in terms of available food, and its usually ok to go ahead. Basically if the ammonia is getting too high, ie over 2 ppm, you know you have a surfeit of food, or at least the filter bacteria is still not grown enough to handle the amount, and you can change some out.

A tank will cycle perfectly well with about 0.5 - 1 ppm ammonia present, so you can in effect , take the decision to use water changes to keep the ammonia at that level. The main thing as I said before, is not to kill the filter bacteria with any antibacterial chemicals in the new water.

A new tank will not be as forgiving about routines that some people do like adding water conditioner to the tank and then putting new water directly into the tank. Take the advantages of caution, and do something like treat the new water in buckets well before adding it to the aquarium. Basically chlorines are contact bactericides, and they can do damage to bacterial colonies in seconds, conversely most water conditioners may take anything from a couple of minutes to an hour to condition the water properly. Depends on the brand. Obviously therefore, its safer to precondition water before it goes into the tank.

Basically, filter bacteria will respond by accelerating in growth to higher level ammonia, but theres no advantage in going much over 2ppm, and it will do an average job at 0.5 ppm to 1ppm, so you can choose to keep the level low.

Whenever you go over 2ppm you know there is more than enough ammonia available for bacterial growth, and you can cut it back a little for the health of the fish.
You'll not adversely affect filter development, its just that some beginners can get a bit overkill about ammonia paranoia,and they go crazy on the water changes thus increasing the cycling time. Take a balanced approach, and it often works out fine.

ScottF,

You're welcome on the details. How is the Ick problem going? Still have the 2 Tiger Barbs?

I have another question about my old tank, that I am setting up as a QT. I can't find pure ammonia around where I live and I need to cycle that tank too since I cleaned everything out of it when I got the new one. Is there another way to cycle a new tank without using fish and if you can't find pure ammonia? I can't bring myself to buy "sacrifice" fish, so I would like to do a fishless cycle. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all!

If youre prepared to be patient its actually pretty easy, even a few pinches of regular fishfood put in the tank and allowed to rot down will produce ammonia due to the respiration and chemical by-products produced by regular decompositional bacteria that will begin to grow in the substrate. This in turn provides sustenance for the aerobic bacteria in the filter. Its slow, often taking twice as long, but it does work.

If your looking for ammonia, try pharmacies, and mail order companies that stock hydroponic plant supplies. Fishless cycling is a doddle as long as your prepared to be patient.

Thanks longhairedgit. I will look around some more and see if I can find it locally or on-line. No hurry in setting up the QT tank since the new tank is still cycling. No choice but to be patient.