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I am very new to this whole fish thing. I have been doing alot of research about neon tetras.

I have a 4 gallon tank and the petstore lady told me that I should start with two neons. So Ive had these two neons for almost a week now and they are still very healthy.(Very active and no strange swimming or discoloration) My wife wants more right away! I think I should wait to get more until my tank is more established. Any thoughts? How long should I wait?

Also my plan is to get a total of about 6 neons and two small bottom feeders. Is this too much for a small tank like this?

That would be too many for a four gallon tank, and it would be a good idea to wait until the tank is cycled.

Last edited by kankushok at 15-Jul-2005 18:36

IMHO, there really isnt room for a school of neons. I advise against schooling fish in small tanks(except maybe whiteclouds), due to the limited size.

From Kitten's article

"4-6 gallon

*1 Male Betta
*1-3 Female Bettas (depending on aggression)
*Male guppies
*Endlers
*Killifish
*3-5 ADF's
*Pair: Cherry Barbs
*1-5 Dwarf Puffers
*Paradise fish (possibly, though better off in a ten)
*Trio: Some wild type bettas (imbellis, coccina, etc)
*School: Pygmy cories (possibly with betta or other centerpiece fish)
*WCMM
*Bumblebee gobies
*Pair: n. brevis Shellies (5+ gallons, other varieties 10+ gallons)
Possible betta tankmates: Shrimp, ADF, snails, school pygmy cories

The next tanks I've lumped together are four to six gallon containers. Again, we've nearly doubled the size of the container that we're using, and this brings us a nice selection of fish to look at. The selection is still limited, of course, but nicely expanded to include a few more interesting species.

As before, the previous selections are still viable in these tanks, but the amount of fish you can happily keep has increased. Male Bettas can have an increased number and variety of tank mates, agreeable female Bettas can be kept together (perhaps up to three if the situation provides), and the numbers of guppies, Endler's, ADFs and killifish can increase to a suitable number.

In this size tank, you might also keep a pair of cherry barbs, and give them tank mates similar to those of a Betta. Cherry barbs are such a lovely, bright fish that they're sure to cheer up any room. Imagine them against a backdrop of live plants... striking thought, no?

White cloud mountain minnows (referred to as WCMM) might be kept in such a tank, providing that a proper school is established. Because they are a cold water fish, they don't require a heater if the temperature remains stable. With a diligent cleaning schedule, six minnows might be happy in such a space. However, they do need horizontal space to swim about it, so taller tank wouldn't be appropriate for these fish. You might think to leave these for a larger tank.

ADDED BY CALILASSEIA : The bad news for those looking for small dwarf Barbs is this. The only one that will be relatively easy to keep is the Golden Dwarf Barb, Barbus gelius, and this species is incredibly rare. If yu find it, snap it up, because chances are you'll never see it again if you don't! And, be advised that while it is easy to keep, breeding is a different matter: think of this as the Barb equivalent of the Neon Tetra in this regard, and you won't go far wrong! END ADDITION.

If you've hung around FishProfiles long enough, you've probably heard about shelldwellers. These Cichlids live in shells, thus the name of the group. N. brevis is a small fish (under two inches) that might be kept in a pair in tanks over five gallons. They should have a sand substrate or a very fine gravel and a selection of shells to choose from. Breeding is not difficult by any means, so if you get a mating pair of these fish, be prepared to provide more space as needed.

With increased tank size comes a larger list of fish to choose from. However, the following fish should probably require a more advanced aquarist as their keeper. In other words, these are NOT fish for beginners and require more experience.

Paradise fish are in the same family as Gouramis and Bettas... they are labyrinth fish. While these MIGHT be kept in smaller tanks, they may be better off in at least a ten gallon. It may depend on the personality of said fish. Also, they have been known to be aggressive fish, so care should be taken when considering tank mates.

Speaking of labyrinth fish, the "wild type" Bettas are becoming more popular these days, and a tank like this might provide a good home for them. Because they are not bred to be fighters, like the pet store Betta splendens, they can be kept in pairs or trios in tanks this size. Despite not being bred to have the long, flowing tails of the domesticated splendens, Bettas such as imbellis, coccina, and smaragdina often have striking colors and patterns.

Dwarf puffers are one of the only fully freshwater puffers. They are tiny - about one inch long at adult size - and are adorable to boot. They seem rather intelligent and curious (they like to stare and follow me as I go past their tanks in stores), but are not fish to be taken lightly. They require a certain amount of skill to keep, and have a special diet... the previously mentioned snails. While they will take other foods (freeze dried, frozen, live), they need to eat snails at least once a week. Also, they have been known to nip the fins and tails off of tank mates, so should likely be kept in a species tank.

Bumblebee gobies are similar in size to the puffers, reaching adult sizes only slightly larger than dwarfs. They are a bit territorial, and have similar feeding needs to the puffers, though they do not require snails. There is debate as to whether these fish should be kept as freshwater or in a brackish setup. They occur in both water types in nature, so it largely depends on how they are being kept when you get them. CALILASSEIA NOTE: I would only recommend Bumblebee Gobies to an experienced aquarist because they are, strictly speaking, brackish fishes, though some specimens will live in hard, alkaline water. They also need a certain amount of live food in the diet for best results vis-à-vis maintenance. Breeding is possible, but hard.

The smallest Corydoras available are pygmy Corydoras. These tiny fish are half an inch to an inch long at most and can be quite delicate. However, since they are so small, they could possibly be teamed with Bettas or another centerpiece fish.

ADDED BY CALILASSEIA : Other small Corydoras species to consider are hastatus (which are similar in many respects to pygmaeus, being midwater swimmers, but differ in colour pattern), and the rarer Corydoras cochui, a dwarf species that behaves much more like a conventional Corydoras in being a bottom dweller that prefers to stay close to the substrate. The adventurous and more experienced may also consider the possibility of keeping the Dainty Corydoras, Corydoras habrosus, which is a lovely little fish, but should be watched carefully, as it can suffer from barbel erosion more than many other Corydoras species if conditions are not to its liking, as Cory_Di found out to her cost despite devoting assiduous care and attention to them. Substrate choice for habrosus requires a fair amount of planning, so beginners should keep this species in mind as one to move on to once some experience is obtained. END ADDITION.

While I have mentioned some more advanced fish with this grouping of tank sizes, keep in mind that such small tanks are not as stable as their bigger cousins. Delicate fish require more attention and may not fare as well if your tank decides to mini-cycle with a particularly good cleaning or a change of filter cartridge. It is best to stick to some of the easier species mentioned here if you are not dedicated to keeping a tank perfectly stable or providing the appropriate diet for picky appetites."


Last edited by katieb at 15-Jul-2005 18:42

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

i would cycle for a month, and also neons aren't the best to cycle tanks. and last, 4 gallons won't be enough for 2 bottoms and 6 neons. that would be best in a 20G.

advice, if you are going to get a 20G, i'd start it now and lose the 4 gallon. i say this b/c you seem very eager to learn, and your wife is for this. but the choise is yours. good luck.

If you want schooling fish like tetras you will need at least a 10g but even that is a bit small. Your much better off with the 20g. When your starting out with aquariums the bigger the better. A 55g is usually recommended for beginners because the more water you have the easier it is to keep stable and beginners tend to find all these fish they want to try keeping. For a 4g your only going to have maybe 3 fish depending on what you get and neons prefer a group of 6+. Also if the bottom feeders are cories they need a group of 6+ too. Any pleco is not going to fit in less than a 10g and then you are limited to only the smallest species. No common plecos they can get up to 2' and don't buy anything labelled just algae eater or cae(chinese algea eater) they get big and agressive. Every store it seems tries to sell cae to beginners.

Last edited by sham at 15-Jul-2005 18:51

Ok so Im gonna wait a month before I get more fish to ensure the tank has cycled properly. So if I stick with neons can I only put 4 in my four gallon tank?(I have read about an inch of fish per gallon of water)

Thanks for all the replies so far!

why not upgrade to a 10 gallon? they are usually cheaper than smaller tanks at around 10$. A 10 gallon could hold all the fish you want and maybe a center piece fish also such as a gourami http://fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/dwarf.xml

a 10 gallon barely takes up more room than a 4 gallon also. what have you got to lose?

Neons need more room than what you have. The inch per gallon is very outdated. I would suggest trying to upgrade to a 20g long or 29. You seem very eager and have a good base knowledge. Also can be very hard to get a smaller tank like that to cycle and stay cycled.

"Ok so Im gonna wait a month before I get more fish to ensure the tank has cycled properly. So if I stick with neons can I only put 4 in my four gallon tank?(I have read about an inch of fish per gallon of water)"

The bioload would not be an issue, however the room for swimming would. Six is the minimum for tetras, as they are schooling fish. Six neons may not cause problems in a 4 gal water quality wise, but the lack of swimming room will prevent them rom thriving.

I suggest an upgrade, a 10 gal is not too big and will give you lots of options...for example:

6-8 neons
1 Dwarf gourami
6 pygmy cories

add some live plants and voila

Last edited by katieb at 15-Jul-2005 22:26

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Ok so ive been looking around for a 10 gallon tank. I could not find one for anything close to $10. Little help please?

I think its different for everyone, the cheapest 10 gal ive seen in pet stores was $25. This isn't the cheapest hobby, but if you invest in good supplies and are well informed, you will save money in the long run. If your on a budget, check garage sales, ebay, etc, for cheaper stuff.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

really? strange... are you looking at the kits or the acrylics or the eclipses? I dont know about your area but around here at walmart a 10 gallon is $9.95

If you're looking at starter kits then the price will be much, much higher than $10, but for just the tank...my local petsmart has 10 gal tanks for just under $10. If you have a hood, light, filter and heater to toss on it then you should be able to get just the tank for maybe $10-20.

4 gals is way too small for neons. they like a school and some swimming space. As for cycling with them, they aren't really the most hardy of fish so watch them closely and be ready to do emergency water changes if needed. hopefully they won't.
btw, welcome to the hobby, and to fish profiles