FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Hello!
I am new to these boards and to the world of fish in general
though not to the world of exotic pets and the inevitable responsibilities that come with owning them (I own many reptiles)

My boyfriend and I recently decided to start up a freshwater aquarium
We've read over the faq
we're both university science students, so the nitrogen cycle was a nice refresher
and have set up everything according to the information we've obtained via this website and some other trusted sources.

I've checked the compatibility pages on this and some other sites and have decided that I would really like a male betta, a school of black neon tetras or cardinals (perhaps both... though I get the impression that a larger school of one species would do better than two smaller groups of different species...) and maybe a pair of Gourami's (preferrably dwarf)...any input on this combo would be much appreciated.

My main problem now, is how many tetra's should I put in? and will I have enough space for all of these fish to live comfortably? My tank is 25 gallons.

My next dillema is that I want some form of bottom feeder/algae eaters to help maintain the tank. I have gotten so many different suggestions here that I just can't sort through all the information anymore. I hear pleco's get too big, certain species only eat certain types of algae etc.

So, basically, on top of my other fish, how many algae eaters should I have, when should I add them (presumably not until the other fish start producing enough waste for them to eat?) and what species?

Third question: I've bought some live plants already. Are there particular species' that are better suited to the type of fish I'm interested in?

and Finally, I was suggested a product called cycle which supposedly adds necessary bacteria to the environment. I read in the FAQ that this bacteria can be produced naturally by adding hardy fish to the new aquarium. Does this product work too? or is it just a waste of money?

A lot of questions here, any advice would be much appreciated

--
Alexandria Neonakis

Well personally I would not put a betta in with Tetras. My bro did that (his first aquarium) and the glowlight tetras killed the betta.

ooh that sucks

Most places have suggested only certain types of tetras

apparently they can be divided into "nippy" and "non-nippy" groups

though people's opinions have been so varied everywhere I've checked
My stepsister for example keeps neon tetra's with three female betta's and a small catfish in a 15 gallon, and so far has had no bullying problems. I've read everywhere that neons are bad for biting fins. It's too bad because my favorite is the betta and my boyfriend really likes the neon tetras.

Thanks a bunch for the info!
I may consider skipping on the tetras and looking for an alternative. I've heard Zebra Danio's can do well with betta's...

For cycling, I tried cycle with 2 Zebra danios in my 10 gallon. They died as soon as there was visible nitrite in the test kit, and the cycle took about 4-5 weeks.

For my 30 gallon, I did a fishless cycle and used Bio-Start which is a synthetic ammonia made for aquariums. You add it for 8-10 days. It took 12 days for me to cycle my tank. It can take up to 3 weeks though. Still a lot quicker and safer than fish cycling. You can also just use ammonia from the supermarket.

As for stocking, there is a tank at my aquarium 7 gallon I think, it has 1 MALE betta, 4 glo-lights and 2 otos. The betta is fine and the glo-lights take no notice of the betta. If you still want tetras, you could try the smaller types with a betta.

Zebra Danios can be suggested as cycling fish, although I find they are not hardy enough and to small. People also suggest Barbs, but these are no good for cycling either, as they are sensitive to ammonia.

I would not put Zebra Danios with a Betta, male of female, as they are very very active and bettas are slow, this would probably annoy them. Zebra Danios can also be VERY nippy. Especially when not kept in groups of 6 or more.

As for algae eaters, bristle nose plecos only get to about 4-5" and are a perfect size for a 25 gallon. If you want smaller, then there is Otocinclus, which are also great algae eaters. These only get to about 1 1/2". You should keep them in groups of atleast 2, 3-6 is better.

If you got:
1 Male OR Female Betta-try and find one that has been kept in a community tank not a single container or jar.

8 Zebra Danios OR Small peaceful tetras-Glo Lights, Neons, Lemons, Pristellas, Black Neons are all good tetras.


1 bristle nose pleco OR 4 Otocinclus-algae eater

8 Corydoras-

These are great little catfish, that scavenge around eating left over food. They are also very cute and entertaining. There are over 200 species. Some Good ones are: sterbai, julii, trilineatus, schwartzi, and caudimaculatus. Panda Corydoras are also very cute, but these are a lot more delicate and not for a beginner. Peppered, Bronze and Albino are good beginners corys, but they all get a lot larger:3"!!!!!!!
The rest only get about 2-2 1/2". Not very big.

I hope this helped!

If you really want a betta, you can get a full setup for one for about $10-$20. Anyway, I'd do
2 dwarf gouramis
6 tetras (A)
6 tetras (B)
6 cories
clown pleco (or ottos)

You might even be able to add more tetras depending on the species. I'd suggest a clown becasue they are cheaper, easier found, and IMO more attractive than a bristlenose. Ottos are a bit on the fragile side, so if you really want them, wait a bit.
My local petland sells them for $2!

Easier to find than Bristle nose???? Yeah, I have never seen one anywhere here.

I saw a clown once... at 1 store within an hour drive of me. Every place has bristlenose.

First the betta. Entirely possible with black neons however bettas in community tanks is personality dependent. Some like company some don't. Do not put bettas with gouramis. I don't have experience with cardinals but have kept black neons with several long finned fish. The number of tetras depends on the number of other fish you finally decide on but I would start out planning on 1 group of 8 of the same species. Tetras prefer at least 6 of the same kind in the tank and more is better.

For the algae eater there are several small species of pleco that eat algae, several species that don't eat algae, and many species that will grow over twice the length of your tank. It's best to see what the store has then look up the fish as there are too many species to cover. Some other algae eaters include the otocinclus(can be sensitive but only get 2" ) flying fox, sae, and cae. The cae(chinese algae eater) is the easiest to find and often sold just labelled as algae eater but is not suitable for your tank. Don't fall for the usual petstore tricks as everywhere I go they try to sell me some of these fish.
Other bottom dwellers include cory and loaches. They won't eat algae but are fun to watch and can help clean up the substrate. I would add all algae eaters or bottom dwelling fish last.

The only real concern with live plants and fish compatibility is if you have fish that will eat the plants. To have plants though you need to get plants appropriate for your light level and for some the substrate can matter.

The only bacteria starter found to work consistently is biospira. I have had luck speeding up the cycle with New Improved Cycle but I would still add some hardy fish first such as the danios or do a fishless cycle. I cycled my 55g using pure ammonia instead of fish. Adding things such as gravel or filter material from a healthy established aquarium can also increase bacteria and shorten the cycle.


Last edited by sham at 25-Apr-2005 01:46

we cycled out top tank with danios. we had no problem with them we are cycling our bottom tank with rosy barbs, and again no problem

bettas in community tanks is personality dependent

Very true Many people have luck with them in community tanks, unfortunately I never have. If you really do want one, perhaps you could pick up a small 2g tank to have as a backup for the betta in case things don't work out. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, even something like these would work, although some people go even smaller:

[link=betta tank example 1]http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=30291;category_id=2173;pcid1=2253;pcid2=

[/link]

betta tank example 2

Bettas and other labyrinth fish aren't a good mix. If you want to play it safely, go with the gouramis over the betta. Two may fight though, so floating plants would be very helpful...hornwort or anacharis off the top of my head.

One or two schools is a matter of preference. In a tank that size I personally think one would look better In your research you may have read that neons can be e to neon tetra disease, and cardinals can be a bit delicate; just things to remember. If you're looking for good schooling action I'd recommend harlequin rasboras

Algae eaters: a bristlenose plec or otos. Otos are small, like the company of their own kind, and can be delicate. If they interest you I'd suggest you read this article Algae should definitely be established in the tank before adding them. BNs won't outgrow your tank, do their job well, and certainly are interesting looking

It seems you're taking your time and doing research, which are both very important. I hope I helped some...and welcome to the site and this addictive hobby

Last edited by Theresa_M at 25-Apr-2005 08:08

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There is water at the bottom of the ocean

hi there,

well...im not a big fan of bettas,,anyway, if you want to put one male...make it sure the other fish do not have long fins or resemble the betta.

i rather go for one schooling fish (tetra), so that you can put more and you will appreciate better...some small tetras i could recommend "cliche" ...none other than the cardinals or rummynose(though very sensitve). i say a minimum of 7 but you can always put more (just make sure you dont overstocked). as for bottom dwellers...go for small varieties like pandas...they are so cute. put a minimum of 4 or 5. for algae eaters... sensitive but rewarding ottos...small enough but do wonders for your tank...regarding ottos..i do not recommend to put them early coz they need algae in a tank to thrive. your 2 dwarf gouramis are fine. all these "fishes" are suitable for planted tank.

now, regarding the plants...there are different plants that require degrees of lighting!!! make sure you provide at least 2 wpg for medium growing plants and 3-4 wpg for bright growing plants!!! make sure your lights have at least 5000 K (ideally 6000 onwards), so that the plants get the full spectrum.

good luck on your new set-up.

I saw a clown once... at 1 store within an hour drive of me. Every place has bristlenose.

Are you telling me my petland has a rare fish? Awesome! And you people say specialty stores are better.

My petland specializes in exotic plecos. They had zebras for awhile. It depends on the exact store. That's also where I saw the clown. At the other stores in the area I see mostly bristlenose, commons, occasionaly royals or goldnuggets. The rest I've seen are 1 time things but petland will get in any fish I want.

1)My personal recommendation is to not put a betta in a community tank, but everyone (including me) have stories of the time/person they know that has one in such a tank without a problem. I would recommend 1 Dwarf Gourami instead (I don't recommend more than one as they tend to be nippy with each other). It's your choice either way...

2)I recommend ottos for your tank for algae eating (if they're available). I think BN's are ugly (personal opinion) and other small plecos either struggle with eating algae or become rather aggressive on occasion (such as Pitbull Plecos). Again, your personal choice...

3)The stocking I would recommend would have you make a choice between schooling fish (such as tetras) and cories. Having a school of both would really strip your tank of space, and I recommend the schoolers over the cories. You have to realize that algae-eaters (especially pleco species) have a tendency to eat algae everywhere but kill time on the bottom of the tank. While they're there, that means you would have 6-8 2" long cories sharing the bottom of your tank with either a 3-4" pleco or 2-3 2" ottos. You can see how that might qualify as a tad crowded while the cories go about their typical, "I've got A.D.D.!" stages...

4)Recommended stocking:
1 Dwarf Gourami (or 1 Betta if you are set on it)
3 Ottos (or 1 Bristlenose Pleco or other small algae-eating pleco)
8 Neon Tetras, Black Neon Tetras, Harlequin Rasboras, Cardinal Tetras, or other small schooler (I wouldn't go with danios as they tend to get nippy and seem to have a tendency to act like it's their tank and they're being nice to share it with anyone else...)

PM/email/msg me if you have any questions/comments regarding me or my knowledge or if you want me to read a thread.

I really do suggest clowns. They are adorable for plecos and only get up to 5 inches.
The petland doesn't have zebras... but it does have commons, sailfins, rhinos, but no bristlenoses. Actually, I've never seen a bristlenose in my life. Oh, and I was excited because the last time I went, it was the first time I saw syndontis eruptous and rams in that store. Although, the rams were kinda pale.