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HI all
ok I had tanks that I just flirted with when I had nothing better to do but part of my spring cleaning involved sorting them out. At the moment they have just been gravel siphoned and cleaned and IM just making sure nothing has died.
Home tank:
54L (14gal) not much I know
fish
15 neons (put in to test things)
1 glowlight
4 Siamese Algae eaters
4 male guppies
under gravel filter (getting rid of that, putting in a bio flow like one)
gravel substrate white (prefer to try proper live plant happy substrate)
Some driftwood, rocks etc
plant
hair grass

work tank
29l (8gal) ok its small but everyone loves it,
fish
2 rummy nose
1 glowlight
3 black neons
1 bristlenose male.
gravel substrate (same as above)

top type bio water flow filter
plant
anubias nanus
java fern
java moss residue mostly dead after red beard attack

so im fighting on two fronts.
At home id like (mainly for kids some live bearing so I thought id start with guppies. I realise now I should have started with 1 male and 4 females but any way ill shift some into another tank if they pester the females when I get them.
I might drop these for krebensis later anyway. saw them in a shop tank being very good parents.
However I want to plant more plants.

Having read some online stuff there are a few questions.
once I put in the plant happy substrate I assume that means no more gravel cleanign with the syphon thingy. otherwise it would take ages to clean , moving and disturbing all the plants n rocks.. I like a cluttered look
So I assume we dont suck the substrate because you cant get at it but leave it as is. syphon water only every week.

Bristle nose at work. I notice he loves eating the glass algae when I have exposed it by moving the gravel. Im assuming hes not lazy but he just cant nose into the gravel. With a plant happy substrate and thus, sandy? top will he dig about a bit more and get at the goop.

I assume its a pull it all apart get all the gravel out and re make a substrate. I want to grow some decent plants but will have to start with lots of cheap easy stuff first then slowly as i get it all understood add some nicer ones.

Same as the fish .would like to eventually have something a little larger than my 2 or so year old 2.5-3 cm rummies My 6cm bristlenose is doing nicely.


My 5footer
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Well... If you want something larger you're going to need a larger tank.
As it is right now the fish you have in the tank are likely stunted due to the fact the tank is too small for them. Especially the work tank.

For the home tank, if you want to teach the kids about babies you need to get everything else out except a few adults and have plans for what you're going to do with the babies.

The work tank is a mish mash of schooling fish. Luckily they're not the sort that'd pick fights with others but they're most likely stressed in such an enviornment.

Once you have the plants in, you really only want to do a very shallow siphon into the substrate. Just enough to get what's on the surface as you really don't want that floating around. Depending on what plants you get will determine if you actually need to change the substrate. What type of plants you get will depend on the ammount of lighting on the tank.

The plants you listed now don't need anything more than a standard substrate, and if the one you have in is established it'll be fine for them. If you're going with medium to low light plants I'd say stick with your current substrate. If you're interested in high light plants, then plan on switching substrates and getting CO2 setup.

Welcome to the site, hope we can get you straightened out.

^_^

thanks babel
my life is a missmatch, the aqua is a simple reflection
Stunted no doubt, all was going realy well, then I went on hols and I dont think the dude did what I asked. I hardly ever fed them for eg, they seem to thrive on what was available. hadnt lost a fish for ages. except a neon or two.
But the red beard got in and messed everything up.
i dont think the water got changed for over 4 weeks.
Anyway
watt per gal is 1 going by the bulb but the office is "very bright" fluro. we complained a while back about not having natural light and that was the companies response..brighter more fluros. (i even have 4 tubes pulled out, it was crazy)

Ok on not changing the substrate. saves me work kewl
ok on seperating the mums at home, got one of them little floating tank thingies..if it ever happens.

the main point is I want to iron all this out and trial it b4 we dig into a "proper" sized tank.
reading lots..eyes have gone waxy on me
re the CO2 stuf, yeah jsut read something on that.

Q why after a water change does the bristlenose suddenly get off his but and start nibbling everything.

re offloading. not a major problem there, got friends and brothers who have bigger tanks.The babies is just a one off thing for the kids, after that ill settle it all down. to be honest guppies dont grab me. I held off buying em for years the wife finally broke me down.
problem with the kibs is as far as I can tell they only get colorfull when "active" or as they get older. by then probably too big for these tanks. But then by that stage we may have the bigger tank

lots to learn

My 5footer
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Ugg sounds familar that office response I actually pulled all the floros out of the studio I worked in because they'd make me want to throw up. I don't think you can really count outside the tank lights as part of your wpg measure, I've only noticed it helping the diatoms. Without upping the wpg there's no need for new substrate, just stick to low light plants like you've already got.

"why after a water change does the bristlenose suddenly get off his but and start nibbling everything"
Not sure on this one but I always notice increased activity in fish after a water change. I have a feeling they're just more active in in suddenly clean water. Similar to how activity always picks up on that first cool day of fall after a sticky yucky summer.

Is there anyone you can pass the work fish off to? I really don't think the bristlenose should be in that small a tank. The other fish really should go too, as mentioned before tetras are schooling fish, and 8gals is too small for a school of much of anything.

I'd try clearing out the work tank to someone elses tank you trust (and not down the toilet as some people do ) move 3 of the male guppies to the work tank, that should make a good display. You won't have increasing numbers without a female, and by keeping up on water changes everyone should be happy. You may be able to add a few small shrimp to the bottom, and with some plants and a nice piece of driftwood or a cool rock I think it'll look quite nice.

At home you'll be left with the 1 male guppy that you can get a few girls for, the babies are pretty cute I have to admit. At my old job I had a 10 gallon that we got a few guppies for, the girl gave birth before I could get her home and it just went up from there . Pass off the 1 glowlight from the home tank with the others. You may do okay leaving the neons in they're pretty small.

Before pulling out the UGF you'll want to have the new filter running for 2-4 weeks. This will help establish all the bacteria on the new filter. If at this point you do decide to switch the gravel then give the new filter the full 4 weeks to develop. I still think you'll be fine to leave the old gravel down. There will be a lot of muck that comes up with the UGF so it won't be a half hour job. Process should go something along the lines of :
~move fish to WC bucket
~add new HOB filter to bucket
~move plants and large decor to bucket
~cover bucket or place somewhere dark to keep fish calm
~sipon off as much water as you can to keep.
~remove UGF
~add any saved water back. If you have an airstone adding it will help keep the water oxygenated and the bacteria alive
~let the mulm settle
~continue to let the mulm settle
~wait a bit longer for the mulm to settle
~transfer new filter over it's likely to clog up a bit with all the extra mulm that hasn't settled so keep an eye on it.
~transfer decor and fish back home
~Check tank before bed and do a surface skim with gravel vac to get any extra mulm up thats' ontop of the substrate, also check filter pad and swish out any extra mulm
~add WC water to houseplants

Hope I covered most everything

^_^

thanks babelfish ive taken that all on board plus the guff I read thru yesterday. I also chased up a nephew of mine who may just help me with a not so LFS but at least i can trust.
I do want to remove the UGF so will take the time required to do this, once again after I have spoken to the nephew. But it certainly sounds like the gravel substrate can stay.
So all is good except

im not happy about guppies at work but i do see your point and its very valid. Having watched the guppies in the home tank I havent warmed to them either. to flitty, everything else sorta ..stroke ....stroke while the "puppies" are active all over the place. they also seem to be mostly mid to top level players.. I tend to like things poking around in the bottom as well.

shrimp sound like a great idea. Ill try and find some more info on them. Cant say I have seen them at any LFS.

Also my bristlenose must go? This will not go down well in the office. Everyone comes to find him (yes hes male, I had a female in there too a while back but new that was asking for trouble) He seems happy enough and if he does go it must be to somewhere excellent so maybe I can hold off for a bit and wait till we get the bigger tank?

Now assuming i find homes for the others (and no I wouldnt drain them) other than guppies what on earth can I throw into a 10gal.. Most small fish seem to be schooling, and theres no space for that especially as they grow. So maybe a medium fish pair?
There are lots of nooks, crannies and pokie holes.
As things get too big at work i can move them to the much awaited large tank. BTW that will eventuate as soon as I finish the renovations..erm which i started 2 xmass ago..but the light and tunnel are becoming pals so im at the sooner rather than later end.



My 5footer
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Well, it sounds like work needs a larger tank , 20 gallon or so and you can keep the BN .

Guppies don't have a horribly long lifespan anyway, depending on the current age you might not need to do much with them. That'd be part of the reason they reproduce so easily.

I really don't like the BN in that small a tank, but if you don't have anyone that can fishsit him untill you get a larger tank find homes for everyone else and go with ...a betta in the office tank? I don't think the two will harass each other although I've never kept the two together. Betta might take a nip at the BN every now and then. The main issue for me is that BN's are pretty heavy waste producers. Tanks that small crash easiely. I'd want WC's done every day or two on that tank, frequent WC's can be troublesome.


I got all excited about the UGF switch (man I hate them) that I forgot entirely to mention about kribs. I picked 5 up at an auction a few months ago. They colored up quite quickly, pretty active although they do tend to hide quite a bit. Mine havent bred yet but they look fairly close to. Snapped some pics when I was out feeding this am, I'll have a look and see if anything came out well. They might be a good alternative for the home tank.

Some other small fish to look at would be rasboras or endlers would be good but get the guppies out of the tank as they tend to cross breed.

My suggestion. Get a larger tank for home (go for a 55 it'll be easier to maintain ). Take 14 gal to work (or give it to the kids if you can get some contributions from work for a tank upgrade) keep the BN and maybe a few other small fish in it, maybe the neons and BNose together. In the 8gallon, a betta and some shrimp, ADF are other options although it always depends on the betta.

My boss asked me to start a fishtank at work and that's how I got hooked, but it is a bit . I ended up selling cans of soda and ice cream (plus taking contributions which didn't happen all that often) to help pay for the tanks and food.


Okay, quick sort and here's some shots of mine, they colored up a few weeks after I got them. Not sure how old they were when I got them though.



I absolutly love the patterns on the tails, I'm pretty sure this is my dominant male. Sorry the rest is blurred but they were excited about the bloodworms


I have 5 in a 20 with some white clouds, they may stay there by themselves, the WCMM are for the 5' once we move.

^_^

HOB size for the 54L
to replace the UGF I assume a real small one would be adequate
i take it the shrimp and the BN wont play nicely together
great kribs btw.. i take it you have to have males and females together to get them to colour up?
and ADF yeah really ,, where on earth do i get those

BTW no chance of work helping out. they tried to get rid of it once, said that being on the same desk as a PC was an electrocution risk. Also its the biggest i could fit on the desk.

My 5footer
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This one would be just fine for that sized tank.

I don't know if the BN would go after the shrimp Try making a post over in inverts. The only shrimp I ever kept were ghost shrimp and they tend to get eaten pretty easily but something a little larger might work.

I have males and females together cause that's how they came, they colored up a week or so after coming home (auctions I'm sure are pretty stressfull on fish!) There's not too much agression, although they do tend to hide for a bit if I've rearranged the tank.

If work won't help out I'd switch large fish to a large tank back home. Luckily you havent got anything too big, really it's just the BN I'm worried about. A 2 foot tank should make him (and me ) happier. Larger if you can swing it of course. Trade all but the neon tetras, and SAE back into the store then put tetras BN and SAE into the larger tank, hand off the 14gal to the kiddies for guppies or kribs I think you'll be all sorted out.

keep in mind that if you get the kids really excited with the guppies, even if they're not really your thing, they may help in tank maintence and in the final decision for a 5 foot tank ...but you didnt hear that from me


^_^

hey hewy we are on the same wavelength. thats the filter i figured would be good.
all ok on the other stuff. aprt from wher to get a frog.. ill do some chasing around down here
cheers

for now

My 5footer
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Argg I forgot about mentioning the frogs

Hmm, I'm really not sure that I've seen ADF's in Oz

*asks Adam*

Oops aparently they're banned, they shoulda done that with the cane toads instead .

Might go with the shrimp idea instead, IMO they're a bit more active anyway .

^_^

News n updates
Ok im doing this in waves a little experimenting along the way too and of course learning.
I did a fairly hefty clean out of the work tank in two stages. one was remove the rocks and artifacts and clean them of the algae and then a day later a water change. I have lost most of my java moss to the algae but it is showing (a week later) signs of recovery.
I introduced two of the male guppies, ( I was ready to remove the Tetras but I will do that later on seeing as they seem to get along just fine..for now) I need to ready the home tank you see.
I had originally plenty of horizontal hidy spot for the BN but noticed his favourite posie was vertical between the heater and the glass. I assumed this was because he liked the heat. But as a little experiment I rearranged the rockwork to give him a few more vertical hidy spots. BINGO he moved in within the day.
I also intoduced the SAE temprorarily and he is doing a grand job munching on the remaining algae. Especially cleaning the leaves of the anubias nannus. As yet I havent seen him nibble the newly growing java moss as I have heard they do.
everyone has gooed and gaahhed over the guppies so I guess they may stay after all.
Still hunting down for cherry/ghost shrimp but all is longer term now while I fix up the home tank.

Tested the work tank too and noticed it was a little high on the PH, tap water here is great so Im not sure whats caused that.. Ill check after this weeks water change.(today) everything else is normal. might take a dose into a LFS just to verify my results.

My 5footer
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Interesting note.
I have one of the SAE in the tank at work now , been there over a week done a grand job cleaning up the algae. He is constantly on the move, active etc.
While at home the other 3 SAE are generally hiding.
In fact if i was to make a snap observation. Id say my work tank is far more active all round than my home one, which is larger.
oh and I can report support for the notion that Guppies eat algae.. they love it too.

My 5footer
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just a nother note.
as part of my switch for the home tank to a decent filter.
I was persuaded by the LFS to leave the UGF in as it wont do any harm. put in more gravel. replace the corner filter carbon with bio media and put in a small internal flow pump filter.

so I did
and
so far good results
the SAE picked up immediately I suspect they like the flowing water much better. The whole tank is livelier now.
it also saves me alot of ripping up the UGF work

also the mumy guppy had bubs this morning.
so I must be doing something right.

My 5footer
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Hmm I'm not happy that the LFS urged you to keep it in. If you ever lose power for more than an hour the conditions under that plate can go anerobic very quickly, and anerobic conditions can cause fish deaths, especially with tanks as badly overstocked as you've got.

Guppies have babies period, even when they've been away from males for 6 months. You'll have another set in another 28 days too.

^_^

I guess he was just trying to save me some work. If "fishy" people cant agree what hope does a noob have? Indeed when I mentioned my concern for the plant roots not liking the air his response was deeper gravel.. I didnt purchase that yet either. But after some reading it does seem Im a little lite on in that area.

Either way i have to wait 4 weeks ish to allow the new media in the corner filtr to take. So ill worry about the UGF then.
As for the guppies need homes. I have that under control on a number of fronts. I read some guff on them hoarding sperm too the clever little things so indeed more to follow is on the cards.
The kids were enthralled to see them when they awoke this morning so at least someone is happy.

My 5footer
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